Are we (EMS) Lazy, Scared, or Indifferent ?

[tinman694]

Everything you'all say is true, but that doesnt mean we cant or shouldnt try to change it. Forty years ago, an ambulance was little more than two guys and a hearse. I imagine if you told those "ambulance attendants" that one day we would intubate and administer medications, would have computers on trucks, have cardiac monitors, 12-lead, and pulse-oximetry, they would have laughed in your face. If we wanted to, we could make big changes in the EMS Industry, but it is easier to gripe about problems than it is to fix the problems.

Actually, my old man was one of those "ambulance attendants' for awhile and they knew some of what was coming. He was also a battlefield medic and they did what they could do for the patients. Ambulances were a community service provided by a local business--they were intended to be a means of transport when other methods would not be practical. (Do a search on BandAidPatrol--he had several on what the early days were like)

Changes come about when they are necessary, not because we can 'do better' like the fire service.

This tired argument goes to the root of what is wrong with medicine now...we are not the root cause, and we are not the answer--we do what we are told to do by those who make the rules (Like physicians?) We do what they want us to do. If you cannot figure that one out, you are in the wrong line of work. :twisted:

Why do we have to troll and bring the same tired arguments up.

[TechMedic05]

Everything you'all say is true, but that doesnt mean we cant or shouldnt try to change it. Forty years ago, an ambulance was little more than two guys and a hearse. I imagine if you told those "ambulance attendants" that one day we would intubate and administer medications, would have computers on trucks, have cardiac monitors, 12-lead, and pulse-oximetry, they would have laughed in your face. If we wanted to, we could make big changes in the EMS Industry, but it is easier to gripe about problems than it is to fix the problems.

By all means, if we gripe now and then, we didn't mean to offend thou, GAmedic.

Now: I'm not saying that there's nothing out there that EMS wants to change. But try this on for size. Out of any person regularly active on this site, with a few exceptions, we're all in EMS to make changes for the better. We're not here to tell you your ideas are crappy, or awesome. We're not here to be criticized of every shortcoming that EMS may face. We're not here to be complacent. We're not here to bash other people, especially those outside of our 'community'. We're here because we want to. Because, perhaps, many want to improve themselves, and the others wish to help that. We're here because we want to know more. We want to do more. We want to be better. I can only think of a very small number of people who came here to be lazy and complacent. And, usually, they shape up, or ship out. [i really just wanted to use that phrase today...Day's complete.] Like many have stated: "Preaching to the choir". And, just because we don't all jump on your bandwagon, go door to door with AED's, sterilize everything in an ambulance and give activated charcoal to everyone who has ingested anything not certified organic, does not mean you have bad ideas, or mean that the viewers here at The City are bad, either. Regardless of how you decide to call us lazy, scared, or indifferent [Note how "Dedicated, but preoccupied" wasn't a choice in the topic.]

You are a crusader, GA. Go for it. Just remember a few things: Recognize what you can fix. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Only fix what you can fix. And don't step on the toes of those whose support you'll require to get the rest of those tasks done.

We're not lazy, we're not scared, and we're not indifferent.

And GA: regarding 12 leads, pulse oxymetry, computers, intubation, medications, and anything else we've gotten in the past 40 years. It took just that. 40 years. EMS has rarely ever gotten anything 'overnight'. In fear of sounding redundant, you may not be the first to think of such great, or not so great, ideas. "Search" works wonders.

[JPINFV]

On AEDs' date=' who said anything about tax dollars ? Why cant the local EMS just educate the community to the issue. Let those businesses figure out a way to buy their own. If you only saved one life this year with a community AED, woudn't it be worth the 30 minutes you spent convincing that business to buy one. You cant convince me that if your department facilitated the purchase of 20 more AEDs in your community, that a life would never be saved.[/quote']

Of course those 20 AEDs might just sit there unused because it is just as possible that no one will have an arrest. PAD are good, but if the government is going to take an active part in advocating their use or is going to mandate them, then it should, at the very least, help defray some of the costs.

Why would a low H&H require a trauma center? There could be several causes, most of which do not require a trauma surgeon. Does your local non-trauma hospitals lack ORs and blood banks?

A lot of the stuff on computers should either be available by memory or be available in a book. You know, those things with pages and words that you have to open up. If I remember correctly, you read them [in English] top to bottom, left to right.

That is, of course, if you can convice people to actually respond. Also, most companies are going to complain about the "liability" of having an AED and staffing concerns about always having a person on staff that is AED/CPR certified (I used to work at a movie theater and this came up one or two times and that was upper management's answer)

And no, Paramedics cant open a trauma center, but they can be activist to the media and legislature to get more opened. We cant do it alone, but our voice can be used.

The few things I listed are just sample suggestions. You bring up many "bigger issues" that need to be addressed, and you are right, they should be. My question is why arent they ? We all know what the problems are in EMS, but ask who is doing anything about it, and the answer is usually no one. But one thing that I have discovered is, that half of the battle is just deciding to tackle the problem, instead of ignoring it. We tend to say, it cant be done, and then we move on. But I am glad you brought it up, instead of just talking about it, why dont we see if we can actually solve one of those "bigger issues" that you mentioned.

JPINV (or anyone else that is up for a challenge), If you could fix one of those big issues, which one would you choose ? Please post it, and lets put all of our brains together to solve it.

[Ridryder 911]

Actually reading all the posts is quite humorous... the fact is we are missing the whole point. Others are trying to point it out to us, other professions have started and we as usual follow behind......

that is ................

Prevention is the key.

If we were truly professional, educated, and really even caring we would do more on prevention medicine.

We would work closely with MADD, seat belt enforcement, fall prevention and home safety groups. Other professional groups have made that move. Did you report or make notes on how safe or un safe the house was, on your last call? Did you remove that slip rug? Did you contact the social worker to notify that grandma had fallen twice this week and needs rails in her bath tub?... What else could you had done..? Do you feel bad, after the third time you have to respond on someone due to extreme heat, poor living condition, the child that was ejected from not being restrained?

Are we really wrapped up so much into our profession or is it insecure that we actually believe it is someone else's job? By punting it off to someone else ... how professional is this... how lazy would you consider a health care professional to turn an eye to to a hazard? Would you have the same opinion of a firefighter that seen frayed electric cords, later to work a structure fire, caused by that electrical short?

All that was stated in other posts are good points.. but, that is still treating the symptoms not etiology. There will continue to be enough idiots, that consume the wrong food, have a sedentary life style, causes incidences that harm themselves and others.. by performing prevention we will not stop our career or run volume, just enhance it!.

R/r 911

[JPINFV]

We would work closely with MADD, seat belt enforcement, fall prevention and home safety groups. Other professional groups have made that move. Do you report or make notes on how safe or un safe the house was, on you last call. Did you remove that slip rug? Did you contact the social worker to notify that grandma had fallen twice this week and needs rails in her bath tub?...

I actually do have a home made "mandatory reporter" kit (form, instructions, preaddressed stamped envelope). I just haven't gotten a chance to use it since I set it up.

[GAmedic1506]

Now the conversation is coming around. Good points by RidRyder. Please, I have never been offended, please feel free to say whatever you like, I have thick skin -- cause lord knows I have been called everything in the book in the past few weeks. And my intention is not to make any one feel bad -- its just to raise awareness of issues. I am sorry, but I see too many people waving the EMS IS A VICTIM FLAG. We are right where we are because of our (EMS COMMUNITY) our actions and our inactions. Sure governments and other people give us hearburn and roadblocks, but it is we that have to figure out how to get around that.

[Ridryder 911]

I too feel it is time we get off our lazy butts... I do believe we have the highest percentage of whiners possible. Let's compare with others...

Fire Departments: Have unionization, benefits, and heck even when they back into the F.D. station house with a patient on-board.. they support each other.

Police/LEO: Want to see some organized guys? This is who we need to follow... yeah, they fight amongst each other, but they know how to combine thoughts, professionalism, and education.... look at their lobbyist and they have yet lost any funding bills.... hmm maybe we should take notes?

Nurses... OMG, talk about a sisterhood... they may fight amongst each other, but YOU better not put one down!... As well, they have increased their level from OJT to Doctoral level. Look at the Surgeon General, he was a former Paramedic, RN and Trauma Surgeon. He still write his title RN, M.D., FACOS.. very proud of his history.

We do not need to re-invent the wheel. Let us take notes of other success and failures, but there is one thing you have to do .. medics have to get off their butts, and take action!. The other agencies DID something other than moan and whine...!

Don't like the pay..the working hours, the patient load, the type of patients, the benefits, the education level?

Truthfully, what have you done personally done to change it?

uh-huh.. Should we be proud of you ?

R/r 911

[TechMedic05]

Alright, lets get it on!

We've covered the lists of what needs to get done several times while I've been active on these forums [education, lobbying, money, jobs, etc] and haven't seen huge changes yet, although have had good ideas to bring back to my own services.

Now, in an attempt to stop being a cynical bastard - and stop with excuses, lets look at some reasoning:

FD's - Federal level seating. Lobbying. Money. Every community needs one. Looks pretty set to me.

Police: Everyone needs one, educated, responsible, lobbyists and funding.

Nurses: They just make money hand over fist. [Just kidding.] Many years in with doctors, hospitals, and the health field DEPENDS on them. Hands down.

EMS: People state they're 'just as good going in taxi's'. Research shows trauma patients have better survival rates brought in POV. some towns have multiple providers all fishing and scrounging for calls. We're all famailiar with the average pay, benefits, employers, etc. We're dispensible. Many companies go hospital to hospital begging for calls, bearing gifts and presents [mmm...doughnuts..., etc.]

Now, EMS, where do we start? From the bottom up? Educating people of our abilities. Educating ourselves. Take private EMS out of 911? Or from the top down? Throw money at the problem, and it will all fix itself?

As of yet, I've not had the ability to try to help EMS from the top down, but from the bottom, we all have our duties. Honestly, I do not have the answers. I'm not smart enough for that. Have suggestions? I'll follow them. I do not mean to be part of our problem. We're too busy fighting with ourselves.

[TechMedic05]

On another note [hense the seperate post]

At my fulltime employment - Crews are regularly going out for blood pressure check ups, active in community groups and planning, and train with local fire Departments regularly.

I guess what concerns me isn't that we're told to do it because it's good Community Awareness and recognition, but to get more people to call us, instead of a previous ambulance provider via a non-911 basis for emergency calls.

When working with Private companies, do they honestly care about EMS, in general? Why would they want to pay us more, or give better benefits? Is that in their best interest? uh huh. We're fighting ourselves.

[Rezq304]

I disagree with your comparison of fire and arrests. Fires happen less because the fire department educated the public, used technology to minimize risk (sprinklers, alarms, and building code -- along with inspections), and forced changes in standards. If EMS did the same for cardiac arrest, the numbers would improve (more CPR taught -- taught the warning signs of MI, pass ordinance that any new business that is over 2000 sq ft or employee more than 50 persons must have an AED installed)

Most communities and hospitals already stand in the pulpit and preach about MI's and what the causes and risks are. Yes, early detection and intervention will help, but in all reality, until the American society starts taking better care of themselves as far as their lifestyle goes, I fear we could be fighting a losing battle.