EMT-Is and the death penalty...

[paramedicmike]

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, the cocktail is: Versed, Norcuron or Vercuronium, and Potassium Chloride. In that order.

ug

Here are my sources for the meds used:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection (not authoritative but available none-the-less)

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.ph...d=8&did=479

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news...6/13lethal.html (please note the line that says that Texas uses the same three drug combination that other states have adopted.)

These are three among many.

Please provide your sources saying that the procedure is something different.

[ncmedic309]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.ph...d=8&did=479

Take a look at the "Botched Executions" section... :shock:

After reading all those, I can't imagine anyone would want to be the person administering that execution. Talk about needing a little EAP afterwards...

Check out the very last entry of this year...

Department of Corrections told reporters that the execution team included paramedics, but not a physician or a nurse.

[uglymedic]

Sorry paramedicmike, but my disclaimer stated, "If I'm not mistaken..." I knew it was a sedative, a paralytic, and KCl.

#-o

You're right, I'm wrong. Yay for you!

:lol:/

I read the "botched executions" section. I'd be interested in seeing what these persons were guilty of. Sounds like they need better medics to start the IVs. "Needle pointing toward the hand?" My god!

There's always the Russian option of a bullet in the head...

Still doesn't change my view. If anything, it needs to be more streamlined.

ug

[Ace844]

It should be noted that the 'Russian bullet option' which you mention was often preceeded by a (potential 3k mile walk, later train ride to Siberia, but not always) period of sensory and vital needs deprivation and torture...The bullet came after all of that usually, and mostly you hoped the guys pulling the trigger were sober.

ACE844

[uglymedic]

You're right Ace. These people deserve to be treated with compassion and love.

Wait...a...second...

Not! Still don't have any compassion for a baby raper or wife/mom/girl murderer! Sorry! Never will!

Not saying the Russians were tops in that area but "Keep It Simple Stupid" can apply to more areas than EMS.

Interestingly though, I remember seeing an article on the tele that said the russians felt themselves more compassionate because they didn't give a specific execution date. Just went in, fetched 'em, brought 'em out back, tied them to an old box spring, and carried out the orders.

It's all about the point of view too.

Still loving this discussion...

ug

[Ace844]

You're right Ace. These people deserve to be treated with compassion and love.

Wait...a...second...

Not! Still don't have any compassion for a baby raper or wife/mom/girl murderer! Sorry! Never will!

Not saying the Russians were tops in that area but "Keep It Simple Stupid" can apply to more areas than EMS.

Interestingly though, I remember seeing an article on the tele that said the russians felt themselves more compassionate because they didn't give a specific execution date. Just went in, fetched 'em, brought 'em out back, tied them to an old box spring, and carried out the orders.

It's all about the point of view too.

Still loving this discussion...

ug

I never stated an opinion about this matter, but as far as the Russian side, just facts. Next, I happen to know someone who spent 10 yrs in Lubyanka as a political prisoner for printing an 'anti-state article in a newspaper. The guy didn't even write it, he was just working the press the night they printed it at the paper. As far as the executions being anonymous, perhaps in some areas. The individual I know said they knew when they were executing people because they only did it on nights where the elevator worked (this was sporadically) and it made a hell of a rucus, and also some of the guards there would tell the prisoners. Makes for some interesting stories when he feels like talking about it. Best of luck with your lethal injections, YMMV,

ACE844

[Just Plain Ruff]

Well let's hear it from someone on this site who's girlfriend in college was raped and then murdered in her apartment 15 minutes after I had left. The assailant was caught running from the apartment with her blood on him.

He was convicted of 1st degree murder and sentenced to die.

Did I forgive him? NOPE

Do I hate him for what he did? YEP you bet your ass I do.

Would I start the IV and push the drugs, probably at the time, due to the emotional nature of the situation.

would I now - NO way. There is no way that any paramedic out there or EMT or Nurse should be administering the lethal cocktail to these people. It just goes away from all what we are taught - the original rule FIRST DO NO HARM

You really cannot allow medics to be doing the execution and still follow that Ethical Rule.

My opinion only of course.

[Ace844]

Well let's hear it from someone on this site who's girlfriend in college was raped and then murdered in her apartment 15 minutes after I had left. The assailant was caught running from the apartment with her blood on him.

He was convicted of 1st degree murder and sentenced to die.

Did I forgive him? NOPE

Do I hate him for what he did? YEP you bet your ass I do.

Would I start the IV and push the drugs, probably at the time, due to the emotional nature of the situation.

would I now - NO way. There is no way that any paramedic out there or EMT or Nurse should be administering the lethal cocktail to these people. It just goes away from all what we are taught - the original rule FIRST DO NO HARM

You really cannot allow medics to be doing the execution and still follow that Ethical Rule.

My opinion only of course.

"Ruff," I'm sorry to hear of your tragedy...No one should have to live through that.

ACE844

[Just Plain Ruff]

I have no idea where this dirt bag is right now but he did go thru a lot of appeals. I never had to testify which was a blessing. This was a little over 19 years ago.

[Scaramedic]

The answer to this debate is the subject of another current thread..

From Inmate EMTs?

In a cooperative venture with the Department of Corrections, the DHR Division of Public Health, Office of Emergency Medical Services proposes a pilot program to grant a restricted EMS license to certain classes of inmates that complete an approved EMS education and examination course. Restricted licenses would enable a limited number of persons to work in communities on licensed first responder vehicles under the control and supervision of local community partners.

Since these inmate EMT's will probably never hold a license to work in the field, why not train them to do executions?

Peace,

Marty

:joker: