EMT-Is and the death penalty...

[Scaramedic]

No! No way! Hell No! F' No! Absolutely F'ing not! No F'ing way in hell!!

There I think that about covers it. It is against everything we do as caregivers, I have always believed that health care workers should not be involved in any kind of capital punishment. If the state wants someone dead then the state can hire and train executioners, but no licensed health care worker should ever be part of the process.

Ironically enough while reading this thread, "Are personal faith and medical care compatible?" the other day I thought of this very issue. This is one issue that my faith would not allow me to be any part of, whether or not it cost me my job or my license.

Peace,

Marty

:joker:

[paramedicmike]

Let's see, if doctors won't do it due to ethical standards (I seem to remember something about 'first do no harm...') then what would give an "I" or "P" the right to do it? Aren't we bound by the same ethical standards? If not, why not? If you aren't, then why are you working in this field? Don't we work for MDs...the same one's who are refusing to participate?

If it makes sense to let us do it because it falls within the scope of our training, they why not let an RN do it? Isn't starting an IV within the scope of their training? But oh! Wait! They won't do it either because RNs maintain ethical standards, too! What a coincidence!

Why is it that it is expected that MDs and RNs will be held to certain ethical standards but we won't?

-be safe.

[Yummymedic05]

I don't even agree with a doc doing it. That stupid article goes into how the poor inmate from death row might feel some pain if the solutions are not mixed up correctly. WTF?!?!?!?! That 15yo female that was mentioned, the one that was raped and murdered, im sure she did not die a peaceful painfree death-who cares if the a$$hole who did it to her does?

Have a monkey do the job, no need for it to be sterile/clean, no need to be proper, the job is to kill someone!

[Michael]

Let's see, if doctors won't do it due to ethical standards (I seem to remember something about 'first do no harm...')

To quote from an earlier thread (is this plagiarism?):

>Before the Hippocratic Oath's prohibition against harming the patient, doctors were regarded with fear as well as awe because they were in charge of sorcery as well as healing; a house-call might mean your days were numbered. So "Doctor" was once ambiguous, then, as a result of professional housecleaning rather than new terminology, climbed, and has now been slipping again and could slip still further.<

[TechMedic05]

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised to see so many "No freaking way!" responses. Morals and ethics can be argued all day long, and you know what? And really, no one else is right but yourself.

I'd suspect that the larger issue, and the reason why I am against it is: Scope of Practice. Depending on the state and local protocols, unless they're using epinephrine, atropine, D-50, thiamine, or potentially glucagon, they shouldn't be pushing it.

Someone had mentioned nurses - well, if they have written MD orders, fair game. If they want Intermediates to start the IV's, that's all well and good, as well.

IMHO, they should get away from lethal injections. Remove the medical aspect from the death penalty all together. Remove all doubt.

Electricians never needed to take the Hippocratic Oath, and you don't need protocols to tie knots.

[emtkelley]

http://www.naemt.org/aboutNAEMT/capitalpunishment.htm

NAEMT Position Statement on EMT and Paramedic Participation in Capital Punishment

Adopted June 9, 2006

Statement

The National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians (NAEMT) is strongly opposed to participation in capital punishment by an EMT, Paramedic or other emergency medical professional. Participation in executions is viewed as contrary to the fundamental goals and ethical obligations of emergency medical services.

Background

Health care professionals, including physicians, pharmacists, nurses, EMTs and paramedics, continue to be called upon to participate in capital punishment, particularly lethal injection executions. According to the US Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, thirty-eight states and the federal government had capital statutes in 2005. In 2006, in California, two anesthesiologists refused to monitor the administering of a barbiturate designed to render unconscious a convicted murderer before he was to be killed with two other drugs after a federal district judge ordered, for the first time, that licensed medical personnel administer a sedative before an execution. The execution was postponed and has prompted renewed discussions and debate about medical professionals participating in executions.

Historically, the role of EMTs and paramedics has been to promote, preserve and protect human life. NAEMT’s EMT Oath is based on the basic principles of saving life, respect for human life and the non-infliction of harm to all recipients of emergency medical service care. The EMT Oath is a guide for the EMT and paramedic code of conduct and stipulates that the EMT or paramedic “follow that regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of patients and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.” The obligations to rescue, save and preserve life are part of the essential trust relationship that the EMT and paramedic have with all people in a community and should not be breached even when legally sanctioned.

Participation in capital punishment is inconsistent with the ethical precepts and goals of the EMS profession.

NAEMT strongly opposes to all forms of participation, by whatever means, whether under civil or military legal authority.

EMTs and Paramedics should refrain from participation in capital punishment and not take part in assessment, supervision or monitoring of the procedure or the prisoner; procuring, prescribing or preparing medications or solutions; inserting the intravenous catheter; injecting the lethal solution; and/or attending or witnessing the execution as an EMT or Paramedic.

The fact that capital punishment is currently supported in many segments of society does not override the obligation of EMTs and Paramedics to uphold the ethical mandates of the profession.

NAEMT recognizes that endorsement of the death penalty remains a personal decision and that individual EMTs and paramedics may have views that are different from the official position of the profession. Regardless of the personal opinion of the EMT or paramedic on the appropriateness of capital punishment, it is a breach of the foundational precepts of emergency medical services, and a violation of the EMT Oath, to participate in taking life of any person.

[TechMedic05]

I'm not quite sure irony is the appropriate word...

We'll make EMS classes all about skill sets, abilities, and lighten up on the educational aspect, but if there's anything controversial about only utilizing skills, we'll say it's icky and bad, and stay away at all costs.

and a violation of the EMT Oath, to participate in taking life of any person.

What about triage? I understand that not all will survive, in an attempt to [theoretically] save the most amount of lives, but why make exceptions now?

[TerrfyinFlyinSrvc]

Without getting into a pro/con death penaty debate because I don't know how I feel about it, I don't think that anyone should perform an execution as a EMT/Paramedic.

It's easy enough to train someone to run a line.

Go back to the hangman model of the old days, and just train a state executioner.

[TechMedic05]

Without getting into a pro/con death penaty debate because I don't know how I feel about it, I don't think that anyone should perform an execution as a EMT/Paramedic.

It's easy enough to train someone to run a line.

Go back to the hangman model of the old days, and just train a state executioner.

Exactly, besides, I'm sure there's more creative ways to execute people.

Remove all medical components, aside from a MD to say "Yup, he's dead Jim, dead.", and hense - remove all controversy with the medical field.

[FL_Medic]

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised to see so many "No freaking way!" responses. Morals and ethics can be argued all day long, and you know what? And really, no one else is right but yourself.

I'd suspect that the larger issue, and the reason why I am against it is: Scope of Practice. Depending on the state and local protocols, unless they're using epinephrine, atropine, D-50, thiamine, or potentially glucagon, they shouldn't be pushing it.

Someone had mentioned nurses - well, if they have written MD orders, fair game. If they want Intermediates to start the IV's, that's all well and good, as well.

IMHO, they should get away from lethal injections. Remove the medical aspect from the death penalty all together. Remove all doubt.

Electricians never needed to take the Hippocratic Oath, and you don't need protocols to tie knots.

I think they would be under a doctors verbal and written directives. It would probably be only authorized by that state though as an expanded scope of practice.