Defensive tactics for EMS

[SuperKoopa]

I've found a fantastic website about defensive tactics in EMS. It has videos and pictures of how to combat someone with a gun, bat, knife or simply just hand-to-hand defense. There's a forum as well. They also sell DVDs and encourage EMS providers to study these videos and even present a course about defensive EMS tactics. You can view all (I think) of the videos on YouTube here, and the website "Defensive Tactics for EMS" or DT4EMS is here. I found all of these videos very interesting, I thought I would share it with you all.

[Nate]

Yeah....or you can avoid those situations. If you can't...then a 12g shotgun will do a nice job. If that isn't there you can always hit them with a d-cylinder.

[TerrfyinFlyinSrvc]

While I can see where some sort of personal defensive training might possibly be useful, this is the type of thing that requires constant training and practice.

I can more likely see where things like this could give someone unjustified false confidence to interject themselves foolishly into situations that could go very very bad.

If purely physical defensive maneuvers were all that particularly effective, police officers wouldn't carry mace, nightsticks, tasers etc, etc in addition to their firearm. It ain't that they crave the extra weight on their belt. It is that it can be nearly impossible to physically subdue someone who wishes to do you harm without shooting them.

The demonstrator in the video isn't an actual crazed/drugged/drunk pt who genuinely wants to hurt/maim/kill someone.

I don't want a partner around me who is convinced that they can disarm a gun-wielding loon by applying something they saw once on a You-Tube video.

If we actually lived through such a fiasco, they would need their self-defense moves against me because now I'm going to become violently unstable.

I ain't a cop, a martial artist, a gun-slinging cowboy, or a superhero.

I am an EMT-Basic. I attempt to render aid to people after I have ensured scene safety.

If the scene becomes unsafe, my partner and I leave.

With the patient if possible, without if necessary.

It is their emergency, not mine, and I have no desire for it to become mine.

Be safe,

neal

[SC MedicMike]

I ain't a cop, a martial artist, a gun-slinging cowboy, or a superhero.

I am an EMT-Basic. I attempt to render aid to people after I have ensured scene safety.

If the scene becomes unsafe, my partner and I leave.

With the patient if possible, without if necessary.

It is their emergency, not mine, and I have no desire for it to become mine.

Well said.

[AZCEP]

The gentleman that runs the DT4EMS site is well versed in pretty simple self-defense type moves.

It is well worth the time/trouble to look into ways to protect yourself, even if you never plan on using any of them.

Most pilots never plan on crashing, until...

[EmtJim]

My idea of the best defense is my partner. 6-3" 205lb of bad attitude.

[Ace844]

Matter of fact I believe he is a member here, and soem simple research and a PM will probably be most beneficial to you if yuo have questions or would like to know more.

Out Here,

ACE844

[DT4EMS]

Hi all,

Since it was brought up (and I didn't do it) There are some real differences to EMS vs others using force. The difference is the media.

Although I am a huge fan of O2 Therapy if the situation required it most medics and EM T's can't explain "When" would be an appropriate time to do such a thing.

See any time someone starts a thread about EMS safety, it generally takes a turn for shooting, smashing or killing just to protect oneself. Deadly force may be justified in certain situations, but man are they rare.

I am humbled because since 1996 I have been teaching DT4EMS. It is for EMS by EMS not cop stuff or karate. I get to teach it at the Missouri EMS Conference in April of 2007 and I was just contacted by the local Fox News to do a story on it.

The other kicker is "Yes" practice is required to be proficient in anything. But with the way we present some of the "drills" you can practice anywhere with a partner without mats or gear. (Some stuff requires that but not all).

Again, DT4EMS is like practicing to do a surgical cric....... you may never have to do it, but if you do, I hope you practiced.

Stay safe all.

[DT4EMS]

While I can see where some sort of personal defensive training might possibly be useful, this is the type of thing that requires constant training and practice.

I can more likely see where things like this could give someone unjustified false confidence to interject themselves foolishly into situations that could go very very bad.

If purely physical defensive maneuvers were all that particularly effective, police officers wouldn't carry mace, nightsticks, tasers etc, etc in addition to their firearm. It ain't that they crave the extra weight on their belt. It is that it can be nearly impossible to physically subdue someone who wishes to do you harm without shooting them.

The demonstrator in the video isn't an actual crazed/drugged/drunk pt who genuinely wants to hurt/maim/kill someone.

I don't want a partner around me who is convinced that they can disarm a gun-wielding loon by applying something they saw once on a You-Tube video.

If we actually lived through such a fiasco, they would need their self-defense moves against me because now I'm going to become violently unstable.

I ain't a cop, a martial artist, a gun-slinging cowboy, or a superhero.

I am an EMT-Basic. I attempt to render aid to people after I have ensured scene safety.

If the scene becomes unsafe, my partner and I leave.

With the patient if possible, without if necessary.

It is their emergency, not mine, and I have no desire for it to become mine.

Be safe,

neal

You are exactly right. But it is the "principle" I am trying to get across. Not the technique. Look at the common principle in all of the video clips and you WILL see it.

You should never just watch a video and think you can do it.... Besides it is all the stuff we do BEFORE the assault takes place. The hands on is IF I SCREWED UP! See it is responses like that that keep me from posting. People immediately think DT4EMS is about cops or fighting............sheesh........

Scene awareness is number one. Treating people with respect is number two. Knowing how to escape is number 3.

All you have to do is talk to one of the hundreds of EMS providers that have trained with me in person and see if I am blowing smoke up their butt. The idea is not NINJA skills..... but escape skills.

Ands you are right about the Taser, OC etc......... no one person can be controlled by another without changing their mind. Did you see one thing about "control" We teach "Elbow Control:" to buy the provider a "second" to escape. Not for "Subject Control" like law enforcement.

Know who I am before you accuse me of teaching karate or LEO DT to medics............ Please........ Talk to people that have actually attended one of the courses..........

here is a "Class Clip" notice the difference in the speed..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxN0jU6gZls

I can assure you, the person in the FIST Suit simulates a DRUGGED attacker very well. The scenario here is the "provider" has foolishly allowed his exit to be blocked. The drugged attacker is trying to grab them , slap them etc. But the "attacker" is woofing them telling them he is going to kill them.

Before the EMS Provider ever gets to this point in a class, they already learned laws, levels of force escape moves etc. The FIST Trainig does three things....

1) Shows them a real fight SUCKS and

2) How fast you run out of steam when you are truly scared and

3) Just because you are tired Don't stop trying to escape.

[MAMed]

While I can see where some sort of personal defensive training might possibly be useful, this is the type of thing that requires constant training and practice.

I can more likely see where things like this could give someone unjustified false confidence to interject themselves foolishly into situations that could go very very bad.

If purely physical defensive maneuvers were all that particularly effective, police officers wouldn't carry mace, nightsticks, tasers etc, etc in addition to their firearm. It ain't that they crave the extra weight on their belt. It is that it can be nearly impossible to physically subdue someone who wishes to do you harm without shooting them.

The demonstrator in the video isn't an actual crazed/drugged/drunk pt who genuinely wants to hurt/maim/kill someone.

I don't want a partner around me who is convinced that they can disarm a gun-wielding loon by applying something they saw once on a You-Tube video.

If we actually lived through such a fiasco, they would need their self-defense moves against me because now I'm going to become violently unstable.

I ain't a cop, a martial artist, a gun-slinging cowboy, or a superhero.

I am an EMT-Basic. I attempt to render aid to people after I have ensured scene safety.

If the scene becomes unsafe, my partner and I leave.

With the patient if possible, without if necessary.

It is their emergency, not mine, and I have no desire for it to become mine.

Be safe,

neal

I am a martial artist. I've studied for about 20 years. I also teach martial arts and self-defence. (I'm not the guy in the vid or associated with him.) I've have wounded why there is not self defense training for us. I've have 2 knives pulled and had someone go for a gun on calls such as cadiac trouble (dirty crack) and falls (drunk). The man in the vid did say this is to allow yourself a chance to get away. No one said anything about disarming a gun weilding person either. I don't understand why we can give reasons not to train ourselves in self-defense and then turn around and talk about "treat with streamlight".