And you wonder why we don't get respect...

[vs-eh?]

Again...

I am surprised that people are defending such action, regardless of how the laryngealscope and magills may have been used.

It is an ant people...an ant...people are acting like this is a golf ball sized (and substance) object that had no hope of resolving itself from the hypopharynx and could lead to a real risk to a tracheal obstruction. Hence, advanced a/w maneuvers had to be used.

The patient is CAOx3, GCS 15, breathing, and talking...I implore you to ask any ER Doc or anesthetist to ask how they would handle this situation should they walk into an ER with this problem, regardless if they could see it with a pen light (which he could). It's an ant people...Hell SALIVA could have dissolved it soon enough...

I am curious to how a Q-tip would not have resolved this (since it was used prior). Poke it once or twice and it's dead...

Swallow it...Gargle water/pop/liquor/salt water/mouth wash....I would even get the patient to poke into their own mouth...Like honestly...People see no issue?

And even...even if the patient somehow managed to get the ant in the trachea it would have been coughed up 99.99% of the time, torn apart by coughing, etc...

There was never any risk.

[Dustdevil]

Hey, I'm just impressed that they actually have Q-Tips on the ambo! I don't think I have ever seen one on an EMS ambulance before.

@ anty-bodies

[windsong]

I think when you read a thread like that one, stop, sit on the floor and perform the mantra,breathe slowly in and out, then get up slowly and proceed to read.

If you feel an overwhelmingly anxiety to throw a temper tantrum like good ole vs here, get up and proceed to wall and bang head several times.

After banging head, you feel the need to scream and pound fists, head back to wall and go at it again, providing your not in a apartment and your neighbors dont complain.

By now your venting will be at peace, you'll have one hell of a headache, thats ok your a professional, you have drugs to cure it.

Cheers mate, happy reading from now on.

[vs-eh?]

I think when you read a thread like that one, stop, sit on the floor and perform the mantra,breathe slowly in and out, then get up slowly and proceed to read.

If you feel an overwhelmingly anxiety to throw a temper tantrum like good ole vs here, get up and proceed to wall and bang head several times.

After banging head, you feel the need to scream and pound fists, head back to wall and go at it again, providing your not in a apartment and your neighbors dont complain.

By now your venting will be at peace, you'll have one hell of a headache, thats ok your a professional, you have drugs to cure it.

Cheers mate, happy reading from now on.

With all due respect windsong...As an EMR (advanced first aider), how many times have you seen/handled/used a laryngealscope for anything? How many times how you seen/handled/used Magills for anything? How many intubations have you done on a mannequin/in OR/on real people? How many hours of education do you have in their use? Same goes for the Magills...

Do you think (all things considered) that these tools should be employed in any fashion, for a conscious, GSC 15, breathing, talking patient who states they are "choking" on an ant?

I ask any provider to approach their respected ER Doc/Medical Control Doc....and reference this thread. Ask them if they think that laryngealscopy or Magills should have been employed, in any fashion, to relieve this patient of her obstruction.

100% no. It's an ant.

[ERDoc]

Alright, I have been asked to come out of troll-mode after several months. Here's my take on it. First, I am going to make a few assumptions. I am going to assume that the laryngoscope was used for lighting purposes. I am going to assume that this pt was not placed supine and had true direct laryngoscopy or anything close to it (if so, please leave your card at the door on your way out). There is always more than one solution to a problem, especially when it comes to medicine. Some people may prefer one method over another. If I were presented with this pt in the ER, I would grab a pair of forceps and pull the ant out. Other docs may handle it differently, but I am a "get the job done" kind of guy. Nothing in medicine is clear-cut and I can almost guanantee that you will not find any text book chapter or randomized, double-blinded, placebo controlled study to determine the best way to get an ant off of a tonsil (you probably won't even find a case study in the literature). Just because someone does something differently than you doesn't necessarily make it the wrong thing to do. Sorry for rambling on for so long, it's just been a while since I have do so. Sorry vs.

[BushyFromOz]

with all due respect vs...

your a whinging whining little kid, and its clear theres three ways of doing things in this world - the wrong way, the right way and the vs way.....

Some ants do hang on and the little bastards can really frigging hurt

pull your head out of your butt, you are not an absolute authority.

[ERDoc]

Just a little update. I just did a medline search and as expected there were no articles about ants impaled in the tonsil of a transexual. Sorry, you will have to come up with your own plans. On the otherhand, I have a great idea for a new study.

[vs-eh?]

Fair enough...

I admit when I read this I presumed largealscopy and visualization akin to that used for acute FBO removal and intubation. I did not see it as being used as a tongue depressor.

I simply read choking on an ant, conscious, GCS 15, breathing, some distress, and talking, and equate it to a problem relieved in multiple other ways. Not with ALS tools...regardless of how they are used. It is an ant...The same ant you and I likely ate as kids...

I will apologize, if in fact the matter was handled in the other options presented. Though I may disagree. If the laryngealscope was used like this...

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and not like this...

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I do have issue. Wicked diagram eh?

I will ask the physicians and fellow ACP's that I deal with their opinion.

[pacerman13170]

Fair enough...

I admit when I read this I presumed largealscopy and visualization akin to that used for acute FBO removal and intubation. I did not see it as being used as a tongue depressor.

I simply read choking on an ant, conscious, GCS 15, breathing, some distress, and talking, and equate it to a problem relieved in multiple other ways. Not with ALS tools...regardless of how they are used. It is an ant...The same ant you and I likely ate as kids...

I will apologize, if in fact the matter was handled in the other options presented. Though I may disagree. If the laryngealscope was used like this...

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and not like this...

________ (light)

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I do have issue. Wicked diagram eh?

I will ask the physicians and fellow ACP's that I deal with their opinion.

I believe there is one way to look at this.....FIRST yes an ALS tool was used, so what? It was used in a pinch and achieved (key word) the job.

SECOND Just because it may have seemed like a small, insignificant, call. Understandably the patient was scared enough to call 911 thus it was thought of as a dire emergency to the patient, EMS came and took care of the problem in a way that caused no harm to the patient nor any death or destruction. Sometimes in EMS you use what ever means you have necessary to alleviate the fear and discomfort of your patient AS LONG as you follow any protocols (yes, I know there probably is no protocol for ant removal from a tonsil) and you do it in a respectable manner. If I had an emergency that was out of the norm and I called EMS, I would hope that they would be smart enough to use common sense and help me in any way possible as long as it did not harm me or my property. Way to go Ug. There's my 2 cents.

[DwayneEMTP]

Well, whoever is right...I'm just happy to see ERDoc is posting again!

Hey Doc!