I am moving to the UK but..............

[scott33]

Stretcher monkey: Everything is sorted here. I travel to the UK often and I know that most all of you Ive met or will meet are good blokes despite the occasional witty comments Id expect from any well raised British person. ZippyRN is doing well for now.

Cheers!

Nothing against the man myself, just needs to wind his neck in sometimes, when it comes to criticism based on belief, versus experience

[WelshMedic]

This is not meant to be an inflammatory post, just a bona fide question. If Zippy hangs out here a lot and does all this event work in his spare time, why doesn't he go the whole hog and just join the Ambulance Service and do his ICHD exams?

So Zippy, enlighten us, if you will.....

Just to give my take on this clash of systems thing ( if anyone's interested, that is). For the past 30 years in the US, ALS has been provided by people who are trained to do just that, ALS. The training involved is very focused and, presumably, of a reasonably high standard wherever you go to school. BUT, it has it's limitations. A paramedic's idea of an holistic approach is to complete a primary and secondary survey in 5 minutes flat..... , just kidding!! Nurses are trained to look at the whole picture and have, whether you like it or not, a much broader knowledge base when it comes to pathophysiology. It's not meant as an insult, but we didn't go to school at degree level for 4 years without reason (even if I did spend the first three in the pub).

(Just for the record, my experience is not just based on this forum, I organize a trip every two years for colleagues to the Eastern Seaboard to see how American EMS works)

What does this mean in practice? With the majority of patients, not much. A cardiac arrest is a cardiac arrest, we all treat according to ERC guidelines, BLS, tube, needle, drugs. End of...However we all know that a growing number of patients are inappropriately referred or self-referred to EMS. A nurse is much more likely to look at alternative care pathways. Can I solve this problem together with the GP? I've been known to spend half an hour on the phone to social services to prevent a hospital admission. Is this my job? No, not strictly speaking, but it's about what's best for the patient.

It's arrogant to suggest that a nurse can't do a medic's job. It's also patently untrue. I went from A+E (ER) nursing to pre-hospital. The best decision I ever made. I love the freedom it offers but also the challenges it presents. How do we get that 280 lb builder out from in between the scaffolding? Fantastic! It may not be everyone's cup of tea, granted; but it's got nothing to do with what background you have - nurse, medic or fishmonger.

It's not my intention here to criticize my medic colleagues. On the contrary, most of the people I've met have been very skillful and, more importantly, very caring. It's just my vision on the benefits of a nursing background.

WM

[zippyRN]

This is not meant to be an inflammatory post, just a bona fide question. If Zippy hangs out here a lot and does all this event work in his spare time, why doesn't he go the whole hog and just join the Ambulance Service and do his ICHD exams?

So Zippy, enlighten us, if you will.....

something to do with the 8 - 10,000 GBP pay cut

Just to give my take on this clash of systems thing ( if anyone's interested, that is). For the past 30 years in the US, ALS has been provided by people who are trained to do just that, ALS. The training involved is very focused and, presumably, of a reasonably high standard wherever you go to school. BUT, it has it's limitations. A paramedic's idea of an holistic approach is to complete a primary and secondary survey in 5 minutes flat..... , just kidding!! Nurses are trained to look at the whole picture and have, whether you like it or not, a much broader knowledge base when it comes to pathophysiology. It's not meant as an insult, but we didn't go to school at degree level for 4 years without reason (even if I did spend the first three in the pub).

and unless EMS / ambulance services want to continue to be low status jobs seen as 'van drivers with first aid certificates' to Quote Ken Clarke ...

(Just for the record, my experience is not just based on this forum, I organize a trip every two years for colleagues to the Eastern Seaboard to see how American EMS works)

What does this mean in practice? With the majority of patients, not much. A cardiac arrest is a cardiac arrest, we all treat according to ERC guidelines, BLS, tube, needle, drugs. End of...However we all know that a growing number of patients are inappropriately referred or self-referred to EMS. A nurse is much more likely to look at alternative care pathways. Can I solve this problem together with the GP? I've been known to spend half an hour on the phone to social services to prevent a hospital admission. Is this my job? No, not strictly speaking, but it's about what's best for the patient.

It's arrogant to suggest that a nurse can't do a medic's job. It's also patently untrue. I went from A+E (ER) nursing to pre-hospital. The best decision I ever made. I love the freedom it offers but also the challenges it presents. How do we get that 280 lb builder out from in between the scaffolding? Fantastic! It may not be everyone's cup of tea, granted; but it's got nothing to do with what background you have - nurse, medic or fishmonger.

It's not my intention here to criticize my medic colleagues. On the contrary, most of the people I've met have been very skillful and, more importantly, very caring. It's just my vision on the benefits of a nursing background.

WM

what is the purpose of EMS gettign the right care ofr people or beign the big White taxi service ...

[WelshMedic]

No Zippy, it's about offering the patient the right kind of care.....If I wanted to be a van driver with a first-aid certificate then I'd have joined the RAC as a mechanic.

WM

[monkey_medic]

I think the point that some people have neglected to tell you and im sure i'll be corrected if im wrong but you said you were 17 a lot of trusts (if not all) require you to be 21. If you really still are interested i'd use that time to find out what you would need to do to gain a qualification that would be recognised in the U.K. i.e. get some form of higher education certificate that would be recognised and do it that way.

[monkey_medic]

Er sorry just read that post properly (on nights) transiant blonde attack ignore everything i just said. thought the comment about ambulance response times was a bit of a cheap shot. Im not fully up on the U.S. system but no one here pays for the privilage of having an ambulance and seem to think its there right as a result we get called to all sorts of stuff quite a bit that really doesnt require an ambulance knock on effect not enough ambulances to respond to the calls. that said the people out on the ground are good at what they do for the most part. If you havent already worked out here then maybe you should try it before you start knocking what we are trying to achievce with limited funding and resources

[scott33]

thought the comment about ambulance response times was a bit of a cheap shot.

Which itself was a "people in glass houses" response to a previous post, in which a UK member had a slated the US EMS system as a whole.

Im not fully up on the U.S. system but no one here pays for the privilage of having an ambulance

Nor here.

Emergency care (911 / ED) cannot be denied to anyone, due to their inability to pay. I would like to see a credible reference of anything which states otherwise, as many UK bods seem to be under the misapprehension that we check the patient's wallet before the ABCs. Whether or not the NHS system is free is another argument however...you do still pay NI contributions out of your wages I assume? :wink:

the people out on the ground are good at what they do for the most part. If you havent already worked out here then maybe you should try it before you start knocking what we are trying to achievce with limited funding and resources

My comments (if I am who you are referring to) concerned the figures found as a result of impossible ORCON targets, in a grossly underfunded NHS. The figures are what they are, but I never once said it was the fault of the frontline staff. Having spent over 30 years living in the UK, and having family employed by the NHS ambulance service, I think I have more than just a forum-based insight of how things are done, and the problems faced on a daily basis.

I have nothing but respect for the frontline NHS staff, and you will never see me claim that the US system is comparatively superior to the UK in every respect. On the contrary in some instances; such as licensure, professional recognition, and degree-based education (at paramedic level) to name but three.

[paramaniac]

Zippy, you eternal wannabe, there really is no escape from you.

This Zippy guy lurks in many UK Ambulance forums trolling for an arguement, mostly we ignore him.

I make £32500 without overtime. My wife is on band 8 at just under £40k, what post do you hold that would necescitate at £10,000 pay cut my delerious little friend?

Crawl back into a Nursey forum.......Oh, sorry, forgot, they all banned you for being such a pain in the arse!

Apologies to any of our colonial friends who were offended by our cretinous bretheren, the genuine frontline NHS Ambo bods do not share his attitude.

[zippyRN]

Zippy, you eternal wannabe, there really is no escape from you.

This Zippy guy lurks in many UK Ambulance forums trolling for an arguement, mostly we ignore him.

I make £32500 without overtime. My wife is on band 8 at just under £40k, what post do you hold that would necescitate at £10,000 pay cut my delerious little friend?

band 6 to band 4 ...

Crawl back into a Nursey forum.......Oh, sorry, forgot, they all banned you for being such a pain in the arse!

Libel is legal issue in most juristictions , it's also against the terms of use for the forum, hence the reason your post has now been reported.

Apologies to any of our colonial friends who were offended by our cretinous bretheren, the genuine frontline NHS Ambo bods do not share his attitude.

as A "genuine, frontline " NHS Emergency Care Professional , i think you'll find that what NHS Ambulance Staff think is generally not reflected by the attiudes portrayed on such sites by those who claim to be NHS Ambulance Staff.

[paramaniac]

You crack me up reporting me? That made me smile, get a life.

I only replied to this thread to counteract your utterly appalling attitude, I was ashamed by your comments regarding American EMS.

What people should know is that many your comments are based on fantasy, You are not a State registered Paramedic, you do not work for the NHS Ambulance service, I assume you have never trained as a US medic? (correct me if I am wrong) never worked as a pre hospital care provider in the US? So what gives you the right to criticize the system?

Why do you insist on coming on Ambulance forums, gobbing off, criticizing everything?

You do not have any credibility on many of the UK forums mate, is that why you are lurking here?