Local Protocals... Do You Ever Break Them?

[shorthairedpunk]

no, its amonkey skill, a trained monkey could essentially do it(not literally)

[THE_DITCH_DOCTOR]

I wouldn't want a monkey trying to intubate me. And I wouldn't want a first responder doing it either. And no medical director or state EMS board in their right mind (and Illinois is still in their right minds- they're far from perfect, but they haven't crossed the line into insanity yet) is going to allow them to do it.

***COMMENT ABOUT SHORTHAIR REMOVED BY ME IN THE INTEREST OF PROMOTING PEACE AND MAINTAINING THE CEASEFIRE***

[shorthairedpunk]

people like you said the same thin back when our basics started getting cardiac monitors too.

[Ridryder 911]

I would hope that an advanced airway techniques would take more than a 3 hour class. Yes, a monkey could intubate, & probably drive an ambulance, perform cardiac arterial by-pass graft if trained properly. That is not the POINT !

Knowing the indications, risks, the mechanism, anatomy of upper airway is essential. Maybe this why 8-10% of intubations techniques is difficult*.

75% of "Adversary Respiratory Events"* are caused by inadequate ventilation's, esophageal intubations, & difficult tracheal intubations.

Was these students taught the Coumack grades ? or Malamati Tongue class ? Or how about thyo-mental distance ? I suppose it is the old "see the chords ?" stick the tube in it; routine. Monkey see...monkey do..ee.eee;Hey while your at it; throw the medic a banana.

It is because of this "training" not educating EMT's; we have lot anesthesiology rotations rounds lost. Intubating live patients in O.R. has become a prime clinical spot, among EMS educators. Intubating someone who's oropharynx looks like a garbage disposal in reverse is not the time to learn You should have mastered the knowledge of airway control & the clinical expertise before field practice. Do you really want someone to intubate your child or love-one's with a couple hours of lecture & practice on a mannequin ?

I find this interesting since some of the recommendations of the "the national scope of practice model" has emphasized not even letting basics ventilate through intubated patients, as much as advanced airway techniques ?

We will see.. till then, I hope we will strive maintain & up-grade our level of education for all levels.

Be safe,

Ridryder 911

_________________

RN CCRN, CEN, CCEMT/P, NREMT/P & all the other vowels.

[Summit]

shorthairedpunk has some sort of hardon for monkeys and their skills...

like i told ya before- blow me

you dont have jack for training, cardio tech, and RT?, monkey jobs

Our basics have been intubating for over a decade now, its a monkey skill, I dont understand why people make such a big deal about this. The majority of the intubations in this system are done by BLS providers with equivalent success rates to ALS only intubation systems.

...its yet another monkey skill with the potential to save a life, once our B's get the glucagon, our diabetics will have a better shot at signing our refusals.

Be realistic and let the basics do all the monkey skills that dont hurt...

Twofer here:

no, its amonkey skill, a trained monkey could essentially do it(not literally)

Watchout! Sometimes us monkeys get all flustered and start flinging poo around...

Waaaaaaaaait a minute! That sounds like what someone has been doing all around this board... and we are sick of it! Give it a rest shorthair!

[THE_DITCH_DOCTOR]

***COMMENT ABOUT SHORTHAIR REMOVED BY ME IN THE INTEREST OF PROMOTING PEACE AND MAINTAINING THE CEASEFIRE***

[shorthairedpunk]

Im not a racist, you have absolutely no valid argument for your statement, unless you want to use things that you took out of context.....which you will

monkey skill is a regional saying, would you prefer I use different phrases to suit your locale?

[THE_DITCH_DOCTOR]

Nah, I can spot racists a mile away.....the white hood and robe and flaming cross are dead giveaways. ***COMMENT ABOUT SHORTHAIR REMOVED BY ME IN THE INTEREST OF PROMOTING PEACE AND MAINTAINING THE CEASEFIRE***

[Richard B the EMT]

As per my schooling that "monkey" is still used as a racist derogatory term for people of African descent, may I suggest going with the phrases "automatic" skills or "mechanical" skills?

[volntrEMT]

My medical director has it even published in our protocol book (over 200 pages) that "Protocols are guidelines ONLY" It is upon the desecration of the EMT or Paramedic to utilize and make decisions upon clinical knowledge. She would fry us if "we stuck to the protocols" on every call. As from her mouth "I don't want cook-book medics".. She expects us to be clinicians.

Pretty much the same thing here in NY..................................

The NYS Statewide Basic Life Support Adult and Pediatric Treatment Protocols designed by the Bureau of Emergency Medical Services of the New York State Department of Health and the New York State Emergency Medical Services Council. These protocols have been reviewed and approved by the New York State Emergency Medical Advisory Committee (SEMAC) and the New York State Emergency Medical Services Council (SEMSCO).

The protocols reflect the current minimally acceptable statewide treatment standards for adult and pediatric basic life support (BLS) used by the Emergency Medical Technician-Basic (EMT- and Advanced Emergency Medical Technician (AEMT).

These protocols are not intended to be absolute and ultimate treatment doctrines, but rather standards which are flexible to accommodate the complexity of the problems in patient management presented to Emergency Medical Technicians (EMTs) and Advanced Emergency Medical Technicians (AEMTs) in the field. These protocols should be considered as a model or standard by which all patients

should be treated. Since patients do not always fit into a "cook book" approach, these protocols are not a substitute for GOOD CLINICAL JUDGMENT, especially when a situation occurs which does not fit

these standards.