somedic Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 Oye Zipper: go to your happy place...NOW! and keep your manly pet kitty smudge from wandering down to that curry house near by.
DwayneEMTP Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 Okay, everyone repeat after me... The reason scene time is increased is because the doctor is treating the patient. The goal of EMS is getting treatment to the patient, not getting the patient to the hospital as quickly as possible. Scene time is a measure of the delay to the hospital, and to definative treatment. If the doctor is doing definative treatment in the field, then scene time isn't a factor. Man I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall! Man...you're probably going to kick my ass...but doesn't this fly in the face of "paramedics don't save traumas (lives), surgeons save traumas (lives)"? I didn't invent the above saying...I'm not in love with it! It just seems to be something often quoted by medics (or people claiming to be medics) I ASSumed the people beefing about scene time are talking trauma and MI mostly...so...It seems long scene time with the addition of a doc isn't really an advantage, right? Most things about EMS I don't know...I was just wondering about this... Dwayne
zippyRN Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 Oye Zipper: go to your happy place...NOW! and keep your manly pet kitty smudge from wandering down to that curry house near by. now now SOMedic it's a valid point - bystander intereference is a problems regardless of who and where you are in the world, it's not entirely to do with this thread though ? there seesm t o be a concept amoung USAn posters that having physician support isautomatically a bad thing - sometimes it definitely is like messing aobut trying to 'stabilise' someone who needs to be in the Operating theatre for their belly opening ASAP ... other times it's a case of bringing appropraite skills to the party or providing skills that in some palces are undertaken by ambulance staff but in a more controlled way and in line with the concept that a patient deserves thesame minimum level of skill from an operator doing a procedure regardless of location unless there's an overwhelming reason to depart from that standard...
somedic Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 Sir Zipper: You have a good point actually but I see physician guidance on a scene limited to major incidents and disaster medicine operations. Now about that curry house down the street!
Michael Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 I don't know what those curry references are about; maybe it's an in-joke from chatland, but according to this news report, the curry may curry the hurry favor before the hurry curries the curry flavor.
zippyRN Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 I don't know what those curry references are about; maybe it's an in-joke from chatland, but according to this news report, the curry may curry the hurry favor before the hurry curries the curry flavor. most of urban England is never more than a couple of miles from a curry restaurant or takeaway - there's half a dozen within a mile of where i live at present and for the past 10 years i've never lived more than a couple of miles from one ... ( there's also 3 fish and chip shops, 3 pizza places and 2 chinese takeaways within a mile of the current zippy residence)
somedic Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 See zippy I know the UK better that you might have thought. You are up late! Whats your favorite brew? I figure you for a Sainsbury's tea or something of higher quality
zippyRN Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 See zippy I know the UK better that you might have thought. You are up late! Whats your favorite brew? I figure you for a Sainsbury's tea or something of higher quality not a big fan of JS - expensive, and after this i don't think anyone in a uniformed public service role will be too chuffed with them http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewto...sc/start=0.html tea wise drank PG for ages then got a cracking deal on some typhoo back on thePG from later this week as the typhoo runs out...
Asysin2leads Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 Man...you're probably going to kick my ass...but doesn't this fly in the face of "paramedics don't save traumas (lives), surgeons save traumas (lives)"? I didn't invent the above saying...I'm not in love with it! It just seems to be something often quoted by medics (or people claiming to be medics) I ASSumed the people beefing about scene time are talking trauma and MI mostly...so...It seems long scene time with the addition of a doc isn't really an advantage, right? Most things about EMS I don't know...I was just wondering about this... Dwayne Dwayne, you're right, for a trauma and an MI (unless we can treat it with streptokinase in the field), scene time is a crucial factor. However, most calls are not major traumas or MI's. Most calls are runny noses, broken ankles, and panic attacks. If a doctor spends more time in the field on one of those calls, the patient is still being treated. Besides, give the docs a little more credit, I know I'm going to open the door for "stupid wet behind the ears doctors who are all edumacated and citified" anecdotes, but the truth of the matter is a doctor will probably know better than anybody that getting someone to the OR quickly is crucial on a trauma.
DwayneEMTP Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 Dwayne, you're right, for a trauma and an MI (unless we can treat it with streptokinase in the field), scene time is a crucial factor. However, most calls are not major traumas or MI's. Most calls are runny noses, broken ankles, and panic attacks. If a doctor spends more time in the field on one of those calls, the patient is still being treated. Besides, give the docs a little more credit, I know I'm going to open the door for "stupid wet behind the ears doctors who are all edumacated and citified" anecdotes, but the truth of the matter is a doctor will probably know better than anybody that getting someone to the OR quickly is crucial on a trauma. Asys, two things.... One, anytime you reply to one of my posts, and it involves the phrase "your right", it makes my whole week! Second, I'm glad you made the point about giving the docs credit. I've read about a million "And I told the doc to get the hell out of the way or be prepared to do everything him/herself!" or "And then he/she screamed 'I'm a nurse, what the hells going on here'"' posts, and I find when I saw the heading for this thread I immediately thought "Obvious...long scene times, Obvious...God complex with no cooperation, Obvious...no understanding of prehospital care". I had no idea I even had an opinion on the matter until this thread came along. Thanks for reminding me to think before having an opinion. And thanks for helping me be less of a dope tomorrow than I was today! Dwayne
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