Can education ever possibly work?!?

[DwayneEMTP]

I found this on another site and finally know what Dust means when he says "I think my head is going to explode!"

The remainder of the article talks about some people that want to fix this problem...My issue, other than the obvious, is a posters reply below the article.

Shortage of Emergency Personnel Leads to Innovative Training

By JENNIFER COMPSTON-STROUGH Assistant City Editor

The National Fire Protection Association sets codes and standards for fire departments across the country. In a 2002 needs assessment completed in conjunction with the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the NFPA found that more than a quarter of volunteer fire department personnel who deliver EMS services lack formal training in those duties. ( Me: Formal training, meaning ANY training or certification?)

The majority of those EMS personnel were not certified to the level of Basic Life Support — the ability to provide patient assessment, basic airway management, oxygen therapy, stabilization of spinal, soft tissue and shock injuries, stabilization of bleeding, sudden illness, poisoning and childbirth and to provide cardio-pulmonary resuscitation and automatic external defibrillator capability.

Almost no departments had all their EMS personnel certified to the level of Advanced Life Support, according to the NFPA. This means most EMS personnel lack the ability to provide advanced airway management and intubation, manual defibrillation, intravenous access and drug therapy.

But Clevenger and other local educators are working to change all that in the Upper Ohio Valley. (bold added by me)

And one reply to this article:

"My whole dept has just gone through the first responder course and cpr recert so everyone that is active and responds too all calls is qualified to handle just about everything (within MO law) but we do have several others that higher Qual levels so here we dont have a problem with untrained personnel fortunatley." (emphasis added by me)

Sometimes it seems talking about education in EMS is like chopping wood with a marble.....

I guess I don't have a point that hasn't been made before. I'm just venting....

Dwayne

[Dustdevil]

Yeah... now that they have their First Responder training, they're qualified to handle just about everything. :roll:

[becksdad]

Dust - ya need an aspirin, man?

Dwayne qoutes the article as saying that "...Ems personnel are not trained to the level of Basic Life Support". How the hell can that be??!!! How can any dept. or agency send someone not even BLS to a medical call? I know I'm just an EMT, and thank God there's always a Medic as my partner, but come on!!! That's just ridiculous!! They wouldn't even know how to assist a Medic on a call!! My psychic abilities are kicking in......I'm seeing the word "cluster".....

This is yet another example of catering to, and accepting the lowest common denominator. I have an innovative concept for EMS: How about lets go for quality before quantity for a change!! Good Lord!! That just burns my ass like a 3 foot flame!!

[spec_rogers2002]

I had a guy in my unit that took the same Combat lifesaver course that I took, and thought the same way! He tried to get moved to a medical unit full of medics, since he was now trained for when the stuff hit the fan. A Combat lifesaver ,for those who don't know , is a first responder that can start a line and give first aid. Thats it! Granted that a combat medic is trained as an Emt with very little education himself. This guy tried everything he could to get moved, to a flight slot. You have to give him an A for effort, but all he got was several stupid looks.

Dust, Maybe you should add Combat Lifesaver to your collection of certs! It would fit nice between tactical and underwater!

[hfdff422]

Indiana is finally moving towards all personnel that respond to EMS calls must be at least a MFR. Granted, that is not enough in my book, but it is certainly a start.

[Dustdevil]

The majority of those EMS personnel were not certified to the level of Basic Life Support...

Of course, the entire premise of the discussion is invalidated by the above quote.

That's sort of like saying that the majority of the lawyers do not have licences to practise law.

If they are not certified in BLS, then they are not EMS personnel. Period. :roll:

[etfink]

Yeah... now that they have their First Responder training, they're qualified to handle just about everything. :roll:

OMG. I just finished my FF 1 and 2 classes. At the end we had the NFPA first responder. No matter what cert you already had, we were required to attend. What a complete joke. I was terrified to believe that after a few classes these people might be called to respond to a medical emergence. What was worse was that this "class" and this first responder "cert" made them believe that they were qualified. Disgusting!

[fiznat]

Wait, am I wrong that first responder is NOT BLS? I was under the impression that BLS begins at the EMT level. Below EMT is pre-BLS or quazi-BLS at best. If that is so, then the article would be correct. Most firefighters arent EMTs, they are first responders.... meaning that, yes, they are not trained in BLS yet.

I dont see too much wrong with that-- assuming that real EMS would be on their way to the call as well. I dont think we should expect firefighters to do EVERYTHING, I actually think its a bad idea. Fire and EMS are two different things, requiring different skill sets and different approaches to a scene. I never expect a firefighter to be able to do what I can do, nor should a firefighter expect me to do what he does. First responder, yes. BLS/ALS? No.

[AZCEP]

Indiana is finally moving towards all personnel that respond to EMS calls must be at least a MFR. Granted, that is not enough in my book, but it is certainly a start.

How is this a start? A first responder is what every person that has looked at a first aid pamphlet at some point in their life is.

Allowing first responders to respond to EMS calls cannot be allowed to happen. Allowing BLS providers is marginally acceptable, but anything below that needs to stay home.

Someone is going to have to die for this to be recognized as a bad idea.

[zippyRN]

Allowing first responders to respond to EMS calls cannot be allowed to happen. Allowing BLS providers is marginally acceptable, but anything below that needs to stay home.

Someone is going to have to die for this to be recognized as a bad idea.

first responders are great at first responding ... but they need to be backed up pretty rapidly

there is an arguementy that EMT_B is way too low a levle esp if only the bare minimum syallbus is covered ( elsewhere in the civilised world there are foirst aiders with 150 hours of training and who have another 100 + hours of trainign before they get let loose on an ambulance )