Can you diagnose in the field?

[Ridryder 911]

Apparently, spelling and sentence structure must not be one of the required subjects. ..

[UMSTUDENT]

Why do you hate the US so much? If so many Europeans hate American commercialism, why do they eat it up? I think... I'm sorry if it does not agree with you.

See above

I must agree with you on many points. It is important to remember that the globalization of US markets is what drives the world. Not many modern nations could afford their comfortable existance without the United States, something which their governments understand all too well. I'm not saying our government isn't extremely corrupt, because it is. Disgustingly so. Our capitalist society breeds the type of corruption that thrives in almost every member of congress and certainly in many members of our society.

At the same time though, much good comes out of a society that is so free to choose both corruption and great good. Our reward-based system conveniently drives much of current human innovation and provides for a standard of living among most Americans that is unparalleled almost anywhere in the world. The simple, although shallow, reward of owning more stuff is enough to drive us towards discovery, innovation, and great progress. Everyday a thousand kids are born in American with the wish to do great good. To lead armies, to end poverty, to cure AIDS. Sometime around 15ish they learn that these goals are lofty, and take the resources of an entire group of people to accomplish. Capitalism allows those resources to be brought together. Somewhere between the multi-million dollar mansions and private yacht clubs is a group of people who harness those resources to develop new drugs, technology, or new non-profits.

What would social welfare nations do if they didn't have such a large economy to drive pharmaceutical development? While I understand that nations such as Germany, France, the UK, etc develop many great technologies, I also understand that having such a behemoth in the game helps. Our government and its citizens functionally support much of the world. Be it through our consumers or extensions of our government. While we may not be the most generous group of people in the world, I find it hard to call us evil. Misguided sometimes...perhaps.

[BushyFromOz]

Why do you hate the US so much? If so many Europeans hate American commercialism, why do they eat it up? I think it is ironic how so many people say that they hate the US and everything that comes out of it, yet they consume our goods without a second thought

I dont think its necessarily that people hate the US or commercialism. The problem is with lines like this.....

It is important to remember that the globalization of US markets is what drives the world. Not many modern nations could afford their comfortable existance without the United States, something which their governments understand all too well.

Its one thing that you guys have such a driving force and massive pressence in the the world ecnomy. But its another thing when you are rubbing other peoples face in it and doing it in such a way that people are made to feel like they owe you something.

Innovation and development is driven by need and demand. What seems to be going on here is that people assume of the US didn't exist, we would not have what we have. I disagree, id say someone else just would have developed it instead and another country would have the economical clout instead of yourselves

Our reward-based system conveniently drives much of current human innovation and provides for a standard of living among most Americans that is unparalleled almost anywhere in the world

Bah- rubbish! what are you basing this line on? there a many that parallel you, and several that exceed you.

While I understand that nations such as Germany, France, the UK, etc develop many great technologies, I also understand that having such a behemoth in the game helps. Our government and its citizens functionally support much of the world. Be it through our consumers or extensions of our government.

Good point, but dont present this in a manner that suggests again that other nations owe you for this. If you globalise and make people dependent on you, you cant then tell them they owe it to you, its not like they asked for it. In some cases, your econimally has bullied others into submission by extending the hand shake in one area, while warning that failure to comply will result in punishements in another which is exactly what happened to australian farmers.

[ERDoc]

If you look, ZippyRN did say that most Europeans are "fed up," semantics, but it is the same. The rest of the world has problems with the truth? Shame.

Its one thing that you guys have such a driving force and massive pressence in the the world ecnomy. But its another thing when you are rubbing other peoples face in it and doing it in such a way that people are made to feel like they owe you something.

Innovation and development is driven by need and demand. What seems to be going on here is that people assume of the US didn't exist, we would not have what we have. I disagree, id say someone else just would have developed it instead and another country would have the economical clout instead of yourselves

Bah- rubbish! what are you basing this line on? there a many that parallel you, and several that exceed you.

Good point, but dont present this in a manner that suggests again that other nations owe you for this. If you globalise and make people dependent on you, you cant then tell them they owe it to you, its not like they asked for it. In some cases, your econimally has bullied others into submission by extending the hand shake in one area, while warning that failure to comply will result in punishements in another which is exactly what happened to australian farmers.

I don't think anyone owes us anything. We are good at what we do and if the rest of the world can benefit from it, great. What bothers me is the hippocracy of the people who have no problem using our goods and sevices but will be the first to try to tear us down. I don't need someone to go around saying was are awesome, I don't need someone praising us, I don't even want a thank you. Just don't put us down because you have become dependent on us. If you don't like us, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but then you shouldn't benefit from what we provide. (Note: my opinions are totally exclusive of the current administration).

Italics provided to seperate my comments from the ones I was addressing (can't quite get the quote thing down).

[UMSTUDENT]

I dont think its necessarily that people hate the US or commercialism. The problem is with lines like this.....

Its one thing that you guys have such a driving force and massive pressence in the the world ecnomy. But its another thing when you are rubbing other peoples face in it and doing it in such a way that people are made to feel like they owe you something.

Innovation and development is driven by need and demand. What seems to be going on here is that people assume of the US didn't exist, we would not have what we have. I disagree, id say someone else just would have developed it instead and another country would have the economical clout instead of yourselves

Bah- rubbish! what are you basing this line on? there a many that parallel you, and several that exceed you.

Good point, but dont present this in a manner that suggests again that other nations owe you for this. If you globalise and make people dependent on you, you cant then tell them they owe it to you, its not like they asked for it. In some cases, your econimally has bullied others into submission by extending the hand shake in one area, while warning that failure to comply will result in punishements in another which is exactly what happened to australian farmers.

Let me clarify. I said that our standard of living is unparalleled almost anywhere else in the world. "Almost" is a justified statement. The U.K, Australia, Germany, etc qualify as modern western nations. There are what? 20-30 nations in the world with comparable standards of living? We are among a lucky billion+ people who enjoy such a great lifestyle. It is important to understand, that we (collectively) are the extreme minority. We can't forget the billions of people who struggle to eat everyday.

Second, I find many other nations extremely interesting, wonderful places. I've traveled and seen the differences and they're surprisingly comparable.

Third, I wasn't saying other cultures owe us anything. I think the amount of relative bitching is probably justified from your perspective. American culture is flawed, but also an amazing thing. It doesn't do any culture any good to bash the other. I didn't intend to "throw" anything in anyone's face. Nationalism is still alive, in all of us. That's all.

I think it's also important to remember that the U.S. is an infant in the timeline of world affairs. European nations have thousands of years of war and social experimentation that lend to their cultural identity. We have 200+ years of history and a hodgepodge of cultures to reference...

[Dustdevil]

Its one thing that you guys have such a driving force and massive pressence in the the world ecnomy. But its another thing when you are rubbing other peoples face in it and doing it in such a way that people are made to feel like they owe you something.

Come on, Bushy. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard you say.

Who the hell is rubbing anybody's face in anything? You and Zippy are the ones on the attack here. If anybody is rubbing anything in anybody's faces, it would be you guys. UM was merely answering your challenge. Is it a difficult concept to understand that if you attack somebody, they are quite likely -- and quite justified -- to respond, and that such a response is not "rubbing your face" in anything? When poor people go out of their way to drive by my house and bitch about how much better I live than they do, I am not rubbing their faces in anything. They are simply being petty, bitter losers. And being a petty, bitter loser is the very last attitude to cop in this world if you actually want to ever improve yourself.

If the US felt anybody owed them anything, we'd be out collecting right now. We don't. And we're not. But, as the article says, generosity unreciprocated only lasts so long before the generous reassess their willingness to be generous. Those who mouth off about the US minding their own business had best mind what they wish for. If we ever start minding our own business, it will only make us stronger and the rest of you weaker.

[BushyFromOz]

I don't think anyone owes us anything. We are good at what we do and if the rest of the world can benefit from it, great. What bothers me is the hippocracy of the people who have no problem using our goods and sevices but will be the first to try to tear us down. I don't need someone to go around saying was are awesome, I don't need someone praising us, I don't even want a thank you. Just don't put us down because you have become dependent on us. If you don't like us, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but then you shouldn't benefit from what we provide. (Note: my opinions are totally exclusive of the current administration).

Im not sayin you are owed anything, what im saying is that we are given the vibes (weather intentionally or un-intentionally) that you are owed something and i'd say its got a lot to do with the media scourge. Your telling me the US motive, im saying what "appears" to be occurring and as a person who is not involved with the US, i'd have to say maybe my view from the outside looking in should be considered more thoughtfully than a "your misunderstanding" statement.

Third, I wasn't saying other cultures owe us anything. I think the amount of relative bitching is probably justified from your perspective. American culture is flawed, but also an amazing thing. It doesn't do any culture any good to bash the other. I didn't intend to "throw" anything in anyone's face. Nationalism is still alive, in all of us. That's all.

See above. Its not that you specifically said it or meant it this way, but this is the vibe we non US folk get every day from the TV, radio and newspaper. I dont think this is a culture thing, i think its an "image" thing, and the "image" seen does not match the object beneath.

European nations have thousands of years of war and social experimentation that lend to their cultural identity. We have 200+ years of history and a hodgepodge of cultures to reference...

Yep, European chicks are deffinately complicated

There are indeed many parallels in the US and Aussie history. We to are a hodgpodge of cultures and 100 years of slavery......er....colonialism + 100 years of nationalism, but our relative isolation has given us different cultural demographics, less violent, more sociable and less militarised existance (as well as a lower population :? )

Nationalism, deffinately alive :wink:

I was just saying how things "appear" to be, does not mean this is what actually is

[BushyFromOz]

Come on, Bushy. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard you say.

I agree, not worded well at all. I was trying to point out that what people see in the media that they draw conclusions from is not what is actually occurring

My bad

P.S. Being thrown in as being on the attack with Zippy hurt man :? This was deffinately not my inention

[Dustdevil]

Okay, I got ya. I can see that. It's the same phenomenon that makes a lot of middle class Americans think all rich people suck. All we see on television is conspicuous consumption and greed. We see mansions and penthouses and Porsches, and people living in ways that the rest of us could never imagine, and it breeds contempt. But it is also misleading. It would be silly to assume that everybody who lives a lavish lifestyle is an arrogant arsehole who cares nothing about others, or is a bad person. The same would apply to assumptions about an entire nation.

I certainly didn't come to Iraq with any assumption that the entire nation of people was bad or beneath me. I came here to help them, as did the majority of those I know here. I also did not come here believing that from watching the news for the last three years I really *knew* the Iraqi people. I just cannot respect the sort of self-centered thinking that allows others to make such shallow and uninformed judgements of an entire culture.

[BushyFromOz]

I just cannot respect the sort of self-centered thinking that allows others to make such shallow and uninformed judgements of an entire culture.

No argument here...

Kudos...glad thats sorted then 8)

Damn! How far off topic do we wanna get?