Can you diagnose in the field?

[Dustdevil]

Would countries who have mandatory voting be seen to be forcing democracy on its citizens? :shock:

LMAO! I hadn't thought of that!

I suppose some would legitimately see it that way. After all, I can remember elections where I didn't want to vote because all of the bastards running were no good. Forcing me to vote for somebody I don't even support would indeed be contradictory to freedom.

Maybe if instead of forcing people to vote, they could just force you to at least show up and vote nil? Sure, you're still being forced to do something, but at least you're not violating your political principles.

Whoa... talk about straying from the topic! :?

[zippyRN]

<snip>

Not to mention that if it weren't for free enterprise in the American healthcare system, the rest of the world wouldn't have most of the innovations they are currently using. Without financial rewards, there is no incentive for progress.

You cannot possibly be so naive as to actually believe that any of that is "free," so why would you be so dishonest as to say it is?

what innovations would those be?

Fleming - British (Scottish) , Florey -Australian, Hodgkin - British, Brotzu - Italian

Roentgen -German

San Baw -Burmese, Charnley - British

Hounsfield - British (first CT scanner in clinical use in England 1972)

Ludwing was Amercian but Ultrasonography appears to have had parallel development in several places at similar times ...

Mansfield - British , Lauterbur -American

Chamberlain - British (http://www.sussamb.nhs.uk/newsandpubs/folder.2005-12-13.0378101187/pressrels/folder.2005-06-07.4845241509/folder.2006-03-01.7390676526/copy6_of_copy2_of_AAAtemplate)

Pantridge - British http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...9/ixportal.html

or has American cultural imperalism struck again ?

[BushyFromOz]

or has American cultural imperalism struck again ?

Maybe, but has historical british imperialism gotten jealous?

[JPINFV]

Would countries who have mandatory voting be seen to be forcing democracy on its citizens? :shock:

Yes. I do not want people who have neither the capacity nor the inclination to educate themselves about the issue to vote, especially if they would rather not vote, but vote because they "have to.' Government elections should not be a high school popularity contest. People should vote for who they think would do better for the country.

[BushyFromOz]

Yes. I do not want people who have neither the capacity nor the inclination to educate themselves about the issue to vote, especially if they would rather not vote, but vote because they "have to.' Government elections should not be a high school popularity contest. People should vote for who they think would do better for the country.

Or they could just not vote at all..

Interestingly, because people have to vote, they tend to educate themselves about the issues. It doesn't matter which way you look at it, elections are a popularity contest, and the popularity of the candidates is based on the policies and id rather have all of the population voting and voting in a tosser than having half the population voting while the other half whinges that they got a raw deal.

But this is way off topic......

[zippyRN]

Maybe, but has historical british imperialism gotten jealous?

most europeans get pretty sick and fed up with American commercial and cultural imperialism - which generally ignores the efforts of European and /or Commonwealth innovators , not to mention historicla revisionism or the perversion of history to suit the aims of USAmerican big business ( U- 571) ...

that little list included common imaging modalities ( plain X ray, CT, MRI and USS), joint replacement surgery, 2 of the most common families of antibiotics and the productionalistion of antibiotics , innovators in emergncy care including pantridge's 'invention' of the portable defib and chamberlain's work which pretty much paraleeled US work on paramedic ddevelopment.

Not even touched on NORAID or americian initiated blue on blue

[BushyFromOz]

U- 571

Indeed! Sunk by Australians! Sunderland "D" from 461 SQN RAAF!

[zippyRN]

Indeed! Sunk by Australians! Sunderland "D" from 461 SQN RAAF!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterseeboot_571

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-571_%28film%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-110

[ERDoc]

Once again the inherently messed up nature of USAmerican healthcare comes to the fore - the best patient care we can bill for - tail wagging the dog ...

is there statute which says " only these people can make a diagnosis" ?

to the none USAmerican " nursign diagnosis " and the like seems extremely convuluted and a " we've got to have it but it;s got to be different' system , certainly in UK Nursing practice careplanning is driven somewhat differently becasue there isn't a made up tset of terminology to creat the

valid points

it's also the progress from possible bony injury / clinical signs of bony injury - 'oooh that's broken' (when reviewing the triage requested X ray ) - that a doohicky type A fracture and it's going to need plating let me ring the orthopods

I'm not quite sure what your arguement is here. Yes, I made a comment about billing, so what. My point is that while anyone can make a diagnosis, only certain people can bill for that diagnosis (pretty much the same there on your side of the Atlantic I would imagine, unless you let lay people bill for things). As far as my comment about legal grounds, no there is not a staute that says exactly what you said, but we do have laws that prevent people from practicing medicine without a license. Seems like a pretty good idea, but I guess you feel otherwise. Other than that, I'm not sure how to address your arguements, as I am not sure exactly what your arguement is. Some of your statement make no sense. If you'd like to have an intelligent debate, I'd be more than happy to, but you need to clean your post up so that I can rebuttal your agruements.

As for socailized medicine vs US medicine, each has its good and bad. I would hate to have to wait a few months to get a CABG with a ticking timebomb in my chest in some countries that have socialized medicine. US medicine does have problems with insurance companies and drug companies that are out to make huge profits, but with all the good that goes on, I guess you have to put up with some evil. We can attempt to minimize the evil as much as we want, but there will always be some there.

[ERDoc]

most europeans get pretty sick and fed up with American commercial and cultural imperialism - which generally ignores the efforts of European and /or Commonwealth innovators , not to mention historicla revisionism or the perversion of history to suit the aims of USAmerican big business ( U- 571) ...

that little list included common imaging modalities ( plain X ray, CT, MRI and USS), joint replacement surgery, 2 of the most common families of antibiotics and the productionalistion of antibiotics , innovators in emergncy care including pantridge's 'invention' of the portable defib and chamberlain's work which pretty much paraleeled US work on paramedic ddevelopment.

Not even touched on NORAID or americian initiated blue on blue

Why do you hate the US so much? If so many Europeans hate American commercialism, why do they eat it up? I think it is ironic how so many people say that they hate the US and everything that comes out of it, yet they consume our goods without a second thought. Look at what our troops have uncovered in the Taliban locations, and they supposedly have the greatest hatred for the US and everything that comes from it. If you don't like our products, then don't buy them. If so many people overseas don't like our products, then make your own. I'm sorry if everyone over here does not believe in socialism, but we are a country that has had to fight for everything we have gotten from the beginning. Nothing has been given to us. We believe in rewarding hard work and dedication, not just giving stuff away. We have no problems helping when someone is down (we even pride ourselves on it), but don't take advantage of it. We could sit here and go tit-for-tat on who has invented what. How many men has any other country put on the moon? We dream big and we bust our arses to get there. That's just the American way. I'm sorry if it does not agree with you.