Appropriate use of ALS providers.

[BushyFromOz]

I'm saying pt care specific. If you want a nursing equivalent degree in prehospital care that is fine. But then I think you are handicapping all of those dead end medics that injure their backs, or just tire of workiing on the street and want a job change. Unless they are interchangeable (and then what is the point of separating the 2?). Many more possibilities with the same classification. As well as the pay. Medics could finally argue to be paid what they are worth....

Pre-hospital care patient being treated by a medic with a pre-hospital care degree? Doesn't get more Pt care specific than that?

[everyminutesucks.com]

WOW I haven't done this for a while. Kind of fun. Thanks from saving me from a night of boredom at work Bushy!

This could go on for ever. I love it.

Back to the subject.

Ok then. Make the standard higher than that of an RN. An RN equivalent degree with the additional prehospital skills training. Define it however you want. But never the less who would not benefit from Medics with a bachelors in nursing? AND prehospital skills. (aside from the life long EMT-B's we are leaving hanging in the breeze here :wink: ). I still think the association with RN would better serve the street, pay wise at least. Or are you suggesting a lower level of training than a RN? I know you are pushing the prehospital skills and I agree they are necessary and could still be industry specific but a major part of the medic degree is the same as nursing. Nursing just takes some of it farther. But those additional skills could also serve the pt's that medics treat.

[BushyFromOz]

WOW I haven't done this for a while. Kind of fun. Thanks from saving me from a night of boredom at work Bushy!

This could go on for ever. I love it.

Agreed! Your trying to alleviate boredom as well huh?

The bachelors degree here are slightly lower than RN. This is not necessarily due to the science component, but because in order to satisfy the requirements to become an RN there is a certain amount of in hospital practical that needs to be done, and isn't covered in the pre hospital care degree. In any case, its offered as a double, 4 years and you get a bachelor of nursing/bachelor of pre-hospital care, which is my intended path at least.

In any case i feel it should be like this...

RN's study nursing

Dr's study medicine

Paramedics study pre-hospital care

Many parts overlap and interlock, but each profession has its own intricacies that need to be dealt with

[everyminutesucks.com]

Agreed! Your trying to alleviate boredom as well huh?

The bachelors degree here are slightly lower than RN. This is not necessarily due to the science component, but because in order to satisfy the requirements to become an RN there is a certain amount of in hospital practical that needs to be done, and isn't covered in the pre hospital care degree. In any case, its offered as a double, 4 years and you get a bachelor of nursing/bachelor of pre-hospital care, which is my intended path at least.

In any case i feel it should be like this...

RN's study nursing

Dr's study medicine

Paramedics study pre-hospital care

Many parts overlap and interlock, but each profession has its own intricacies that need to be dealt with

I guess you have me there with the hospital clinicals that are needed with the RN. I have not heard of anything offered as a double in nursing/prehospital. That doesn't mean that it isn't here but I have never heard of it and I'm guessing that there would be a lot more of my coworkers going for it if there were such a program. If that were an option everywhere and it could be standard then I would be happy with that. (of course if I really cared and were not just playing devils advocate )

[Dustdevil]

I have not heard of anything offered as a double in nursing/prehospital. That doesn't mean that it isn't here but I have never heard of it and I'm guessing that there would be a lot more of my coworkers going for it if there were such a program. If that were an option everywhere and it could be standard then I would be happy with that. (of course if I really cared and were not just playing devils advocate )

This is indeed the case in several countries, where paramedicine is a certificated sub-specialty of nursing. The Netherlands function that way. You must be a BSN already, and then take another year of specialisation for pre-hospital care. Medics are now being trained that way in Jordan too, and both of those countries boast of some very sharp practitioners. I would LOVE to see that happen in the US, and send all the 1000 hour "I don't need all that book learnin'" losers back to McDonalds.

[BushyFromOz]

what an awesome discussion this turned into

Thanks blokes and blokettes

[everyminutesucks.com]

This is indeed the case in several countries, where paramedicine is a certificated sub-specialty of nursing. The Netherlands function that way. You must be a BSN already, and then take another year of specialisation for pre-hospital care. Medics are now being trained that way in Jordan too, and both of those countries boast of some very sharp practitioners. I would LOVE to see that happen in the US, and send all the 1000 hour "I don't need all that book learnin'" losers back to McDonalds.

Well thanks for that bit of insight Dustdevil. I was not aware of that. I think that would be an awesome idea as well. If you could tell, there was a little bit more than just the devils advocate thing going on there , but mostly that was it. I would still love to see higher expectations here in the states as well. I have seen to many EMT-B's that couldn't make it suddenly show up one day with a Medic patch and I will never understand that...

[everyminutesucks.com]

Well thanks everyone for a fun night! My shift is over now and I'm going home. Hope to talk to you again.

Have a great day!

Happy Holidays

Ed

[Dustdevil]

Hope to talk to you again.

Exellent. And bring some women with you next time.

Minnesota chicks is hott.

[OzMedic]

I don't really know where to start with this one! What is with the focus on RN's in an ambulance? It's just a bizarre logic! You keep proposing that it is a higher standard of education than medic and that may be the case where you are from but placing an RN or Dr for that matter in the back of an ambulance is not achieving anything! Yes there are many highly trained RN's and other allied health people in ambulances but ask any of them and they will agree that their previous training did nothing to adequately prepare them for the intricacies of prehospital care. When guys like Dusty and others go on the road in EMS they are not doing it as an RN they are medics. As for the level of training of RN being higher that is also not the case. An RN goes to uni, earns a degree and begins to practice as an RN. In my service you earn your degree in pre-hospital care, practice for 5 years minimum and then apply for medic which is another year full time at uni plus another 6 months of placements etc to earn your post graduate diploma of intensive care paramedic practice. This is a far higher level of education in prehospital specific education than RN training. I am now completing my Masters and after that will move on to doctorate level. Prehospital care is a specialist field and the education should be reflective of this. If you dragged an RN or junior Dr for that matter from the local hospital and put them in my job for a day and told them what was expected of them most of them would wet their pants (As indeed I would if asked to perform certain specialist nursing interventions in a hospital). Remember also that RN's without any postgraduate education perform their duties in a controlled and supervised environment with plenty of checks and balances for support. Most of what they do is ordered or Ok'd by a doctor. I perform my interventions in a myriad of difficult environments often as a single officer autonomously with nobody else to ask for help or advice. If you want a higher standard of medic where you are then replacing them with RNs is not going to do it! Improving the standard of prehospital education is the only way you will achieve your goals. Along with that will come industry recognition and renumeration commensurate of the standards achieved. It is certainly the case here and I earn more than any level of nurse or junior Dr with the exception of high level management.