What is wrong with this picture?

[DwayneEMTP]

http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/p.../611280323/1006

"Most recently, the jurisdictions of the fire district and Rural/Metro were scrutinized after an Oct. 29 dispute about whether air or ground transport was needed for a Midway-area baby.

Rural/Metro ambulance service had directed that a Baptist LifeFlight helicopter was needed. Midway Fire District paramedics said only ground transport was necessary.

The baby died the following Monday at Sacred Heart Hospital after being taken off life support. Medical examiners said the death was not affected by the transport time, which was 50 minutes."

Would it seem that this is a private company V the fire dept? Wouldn't someone have the ultimate authority on this scene? From this piece of the article it sounds like the firemen were able to cancel the hlicopter...This confuses me...

I'm not armchair quarterbacking, I guess I just don't understand the politics involved here. What was the motivation to stop the helicopter with a 50 minute ground transport time? Perhaps it would have taken longer than that to get a chopper and then turn it around?

Sorry all...I guess I'm not really sure what I'm asking. I guess it's sort of a "What is wrong with this picture" (If anything) kind of question.

Have a great day all.

Dwayne

[Ridryder 911]

The Fire Chiefs Association must have had a recent meeting and presented .."Delusions of Grandeur" .. and how to become.."Kings of everything" seminar.

This is the typical b.s. that is going on at more and more cities.... gives us control over everything.. uh, because we are firefighters. Even it is not broke. will costs more, and oh yeah.. treat EMS personnel as second class employees, without the Fire Service benefits and pay.

If they cancelled my flight, and the child died with a 50 minute ground transport time, I would give the family a little phone call and offer my services as an expert witness. They may be not found guilty of the death, but I am sure there is a money hungry attorney to awaken these so called experts.

Let them explain why rapid transport was needed and their rationale. As well, this might awaken the city of potential litigation's they may not want to re-occur an deal with.

R/r 911

[MedicNorth]

Interesting - the PNJ newsfeed now has an article explaining how Fire wants to completely take over the EMS service in the area. I guess they have had enough of EMS butting into "their territory"

[hfdff422]

How does the patient care provider not have the ultimate authority in determining the patient care? Unless the fire department is the transport service, then they can back off my freakin' patient. If they tried to cancel something I thought was needed, I wouldn't have shut up until either the helicopter landed, or there was a second ambulance needed for the fight that ensued.

Of course, you have the option of beginning transport, and meeting the helicopter a few miles closer to the hospital. That is what happens when people do not train together and understand the reasons we do what we do.

[Dustdevil]

The funny thing is, when a firefighter collapses or gets run over less than five miles from a trauma centre, you can't get a word in on the radio because all the other monkeys are screaming for a helicopter for him.

And do you think any of those firefighters in the story would have cancelled a helicopter and put THEIR kid in a Rural-Metro ambulance for an hour? Ha!

[Capman]

Medical Control should dictate. Up here in Maine, The ER doctor dictates whether or not someone flies. Our battle here is that Eastern Maine Healthcare who owns Lifeflight of Maine (http://www.lifeflightmaine.org/maineneedlifeflight.asp) Took over the Aroostook Medical Center who has always had a long standing contract and money invested with another flight service. (http://www.tamc.org/Service+List/Primary+Care/Crown+Ambulance/Transport+Services.htm)

The doctors who are Pro EMHC and Lifeflight push that service while others push the local fixed wing service we have been using for years. As you can see, this could lead to quite a few problems... And it does!

Any way, like I said. It really should be up to the doctors to dictate based on patient condition how they are to be transported.

[Ridryder 911]

It really should be up to the doctors to dictate based on patient condition how they are to be transported.

You are joking, aren't you ?... You need to ask a Doc for directions on how a patient should be transported, then you just described all the political problems associated with that ? Hell, even our 1'st responders are trained what injuries need flight service and inform us so we can initiate before arrival.

Not to be crude, but do you guy's still call in for orders as well?....

R/r 911

[Capman]

"Not to be crude, but do you guy's still call in for orders as well?.... "

I'm not trying to be crude either but, have you ever heard of protocols or are you simply a bunch of renegades that do as you wish?

As far as the transporting via flight. I believe partially due to my explanation, you have me confused. The flights I'm referring to that doctors call the shots on are interfacility transports. For example, The Aroostook Medical Center does not have the panel of specialized surgeons and doctors that Eastern Maine Medical Center has. So after we bring them into the ER and they have been stabilized but still need to go to the larger, more equipped facility, the ER doctor will dictate how and where they will go for this 180+ mile trip.

As for an ALS emergency flight service that takes a patient from the scene to the hospital... We have no such service in our area. Sorry for the confusion.

[Ridryder 911]

Okay, I see now interfacility flights... I was discussing scene flights. The reason being scene flights should be dictated by EMS personnel. There are places that I am aware of that needs and utilizes physician advice, way too much. Autonomy is part of the job.

Far as protocols, yes I am quite aware of them to be used as "guidelines" and should be used as such, not "Gospel" for each situation. Anytime you have or need a protocol for everything, to rely upon one is opening a can of worms "no to think, on their own" and deviation of protocols, and increased chances of litigation.

Again, I misunderstood you indication for flights... sorry.

R/r 911

[Hunter~Royal Medic]

"Not to be crude, but do you guy's still call in for orders as well?.... "

I'm not trying to be crude either but, have you ever heard of protocols or are you simply a bunch of renegades that do as you wish?

As far as the transporting via flight. I believe partially due to my explanation, you have me confused. The flights I'm referring to that doctors call the shots on are interfacility transports. For example, The Aroostook Medical Center does not have the panel of specialized surgeons and doctors that Eastern Maine Medical Center has. So after we bring them into the ER and they have been stabilized but still need to go to the larger, more equipped facility, the ER doctor will dictate how and where they will go for this 180+ mile trip.

As for an ALS emergency flight service that takes a patient from the scene to the hospital... We have no such service in our area. Sorry for the confusion.

Ok now with all due respect Capman after reading you explanation, your post has nothing to do with this thread due to the fact that the topic was weather or not the fire monkeys should be able to cancel a scene to hospital flight and or who has ultimate scene control.