EMS jobs and background

[mikejeff]

I'm starting an EMT-B course next month. A lot of the paramedic jobs tend to be within fire departments. I know firefighter positions require a pretty clean background (maybe a smoke-pot allowance of 5x). I haven't touched anything in a few years, but when I was in college, I was in college, if you know what I mean.

[Ridryder 911]

Most do not care about the "past" if there is no legal action that had to be taken or a criminal record, or unless you have a substance abuse history Most will perform a drug test to detect certain types and some may have routine "spot" checks to verify this....

Good luck,

R/r 911

[Dustdevil]

If by chance you got a misdemeanour record out of your escapades, you might still have a chance. Hell, I've seen more than a few cops get hired with drug and DWI records. Depends on the department and how much you bring to the table aside from your record.

If your record is clean, but you partied hard, be honest about it on the polygraph because you aren't going to beat it. And honesty is what they are looking for.

You may have a tougher road that others, but you're still in the game. Although, I have to say that you should probably make a choice right now whether you really want to be a firemonk..., I mean firefighter, or if you're doing that just to be a medic. If you want to be a medic, put ALL of your attention into doing that and cross the fire bridge if and when you have to.

[Capman]

There are variables.

Let me direct you to the Maine EMS investigations committee minutes. Simply click on the year then scroll down to "investigations committee". You'll need a PDF reader.

http://www.state.me.us/dps/ems/minutes/index.html

2004 - 2005 will probobly give the best results as they are after the criminal background check mandate. Start with this one...

http://mainegov-images.informe.org/dps/ems...nvmin100604.pdf

After reading, you'll see these variables that I am talking about.

You will also see the phrase "public trust" come up quite frequently in these documents.

How is public trust established?

Reputation, years of service, quality of service, etc....

In 2003 Maine EMS mandated that everyone either licensing for the first time or re-licensing will go through a criminal background check by the State Beaureau of Investigations.

What they found was that some people lied on their past applications about criminal history. (even people that were licensed for 10 years) The fraudulent claim of a clean background is a crime itself, yet you will find that in many cases the committee fined the applicant, issued letters of guidance and put them on a 3-5 year probationary period with stipulations.

These crimes included robbery, theft, drug charges and various others. Most of the case they were many years ago when the applicant was young. Due to mitigating circumstances such as many years of clean, quality service and no other crimes during that time period, the applicant has once again re-gained public trust and therefore issued a license.

Once you read these documents, you will have a better understanding of what I am talking about. You will also see the circumstances where a crime did disqualify an applicant. Such as sex crimes, extremely violent crimes, habitual behavior, and recent crimes.

I hope this helps you out a bit.

Matt B.

[NREMT-Basic]

I have a few questions about the criminal record check:

First, do they allow the use of a polygraph in Canada as a job condition. I cant imagine this as the polygraph, or so called lie detector is notoriously unreliable, it is possible and easy to cheat the machine given simple techniques found on the internet and also, in the US polygraph information is not admissable in any court. As a former defense law paralegal, I saw the polygraph rapidly falling out of favor within the justice system, due in no small part to how unaccurate they are. You could just have an anxiety attack due to be constricted with the respiratory measurement banding and the machine would "indicate" that you are lying on everything. They are pieces of shite.

More importantly perhaps, what took the state of Maine until 2003 to start doing checks? Illinois has been doing checks through NCIC (a nationwide database) for almost as long as they have been licensing EMS. If you are truly worried about what might or might not be on your record, go down to your local courthouse and give then your name, date of birth and social security number and they will give you a background check on yourself. Thats what most employers do, or, they get a friend in law enforcement to run a check through NCIC under false pretenses (since it is illegal to use the system for personal reasons).

And, finally, and this always stumped me as a paralegal, how do you not know what might appear on your record. You did it. You were there. Its your life. Chances are if you beat your wife or got caught holding enough crack to be considered a distribution amount (any amount of cocaine is a felony is all 50 states) you would probably remember....you know...that hotel room where you got your drinking water out of the toilet?

Violent crimes are not likely to be overlooked, and the same goes with sex crimes. And even though they ask if you have ever been convicted of a felony and then tell you it will not automatically bar you from employment, I can pretty much guarantee you it will, aside from the fact that in many states, convicted felons cannot hold positions of "public trust.'

I know that Canadian law will differ from US law, but the laws among the states are becoming more standardized all the time and both Canadian Law and American Law are derived from English Common Law Statutes. Here in IL, you will lose your license if you gain a new misdemeanor or felony conviction within the first year of holding your license AND being employed actively in EMS.

[NREMT-Basic]

ps- I must disagree with Dust on the idea that polygraphs cannot be beaten. Not only can they be beaten, they can be confused, the results misinterpreted depending on the training of the person administering the polygraph, if you move quickly in your chair, it will cause the results to fluctuate. The only real improvement in these systems over the last 20 years is the addition of an iris scanner or camera which registers the movement of your eye during the test. People tend to look up and to the left when they are remembering and down and to the right when they are lying or making something up. Sorry Dust, but somebody wanting to beat a polygraph can do so quite easily as I stated in my previous post or at the very least, do things which will render the results so scewed as to be unuseable. The US military spend a great deal of time teaching certain personnel the fine art of deceiving such devices.

[mikejeff]

I've got no criminal stuff other than an MIP that was adjudicated (sp?) - which I would still of course disclose. I've got a college degree, stable work history, etc.

My main reason for posting this is I have a buddy who, after a short pro athletic career and an Ivy League degree, decided he wanted to be a firefighter. But in school he'd smoked pot occasionally and tried a few harded drugs. No criminal record. He was honest, but they bounced him during the interview stages because of the (not recent) drug use. Bureaucratic rules required it.

I do not want to be a firefighter. But I know that a lot of the paramedic jobs are tied to fire departments, and I just want to be aware if I'll be limited in options in terms of employment.

Thanks for the replies.

[Capman]

"More importantly perhaps, what took the state of Maine until 2003 to start doing checks?"

They did do background checks prior to 2003, but only on a need to investigate basis. Seems weird to me too, but I don't make the rules.

As for the NCIC, as far as I know it; it may only be used under certain circumstances. I don't believe that employment with a fire department is one of them.

http://www10.informe.org/PCR/faq.html

I could be wrong though, all I know is that I have to mail them a $15 check at every re-licensure. They used to do it for free.

[Dustdevil]

ps- I must disagree with Dust on the idea that polygraphs cannot be beaten.

I did not say or intend to imply that they cannot be beaten. I was telling this guy that his chances of beating it are slim to none, and more importantly, that his chances were better with honesty than with deception.

And I have to disagree with you that they can "easily" be beaten. Confusing them is not beating them. When you confuse them, they just mark you down as deceptive, which is just as bad as being caught in the lie. That is akin to having your urine test clean for crack, but positive for masking agents. You're still farked.

Stand up in court? Nope. Keep you from getting a job? Absolutely. And that's the point being discussed here.

[NREMT-Basic]

Dust-

to quote you with regard to the polygraph: "youre not gonna beat it."

And by the way when you exercise techniques to "confuse" the system it doesnt indicate that you are possibly suspect in your answers, but rather that the test, if it is run by an ethical, certified examiner, was inconclusive and should be repeated or not repeated. If the results seem muddled, one is not classified as being "deceptive." I think you drastically overestimate the sophistication of these machines. Poly=many. Graph= writing or in this case pens. They do not measure whether you are telling the truth or lying. They measure changes in pulse O2, respirations, perspiration and heart-rate. Thats it. I have seen first hand an inconclusive result from a person who drank several cups of espresso when my father (who was a certified examiner) was asked to conduct a study on the systems accuracy. These simple machines which do not in fact measure truth or lies, but rather physiology are consistantly inconclusive which is why they are not admissable in any court, and should not be required as a condition of employment. The same person that has test taking anxiety in a classroom, might well tell the absolute truth during a polygraphic examination and due to their anxiety, be listed as possibly not being truthful, which is the best the machine can do, regardless of what all those neato cop shows would have you believe.