BLS pushing ALS drugs in a "pinch"

[Cookie]

I would not do it. Our medics would not ask that of us. I know they would have said for us basics to take over controlling bleeding, and since we have I's on board as well they can do all the IV stuff and the medic do his drug thing.

This does not sit well with me.

[Chrisclark]

Honestly, if there was a pt laying right in front of me writhing in pain, and the medic confirmed everything, I would not really having a problem pushing the drug. However I would not go and tell everybody about it. I will say that it happens here a lot more than people would like to admit. I will not say what, but I have heard of things being done that were so far out of the scope of practice that heads would roll if the right people found out. Have I done and intervention out of my scope? Never. But I do know many people who have.

[Just Plain Ruff]

The question I have is for all of you have no problem going outside your scope of practice do you have any problem with looking for a new career???

[whit72]

Akroeze wrote:

Wow! If whit is siding AGAINST the basic then you KNOW taht it has to be a big deal to the extreme!

Yes I am the defender of all things basic. LOL

[Chrisclark]

The question I have is for all of you have no problem going outside your scope of practice do you have any problem with looking for a new career???

If it TRULY!!! means the difference between life and death for that patient, no I do not mind looking for a new career.

[paramedicmike]

It seems the basic element of this discussion is this question that was recently restated,

Should a BLS provider be pushing ALS drugs under any cirumstances.

The very next sentence answered this question,

Legally, obviously the answer is no.

If the legal answer is "no", then where's the problem?

There may not have been any statement made as to actions of the medic save confirming the needed info for medication adminstration and instructing the EMT in question to push the drug. However, those of us who have been doing this for a while can see the different scenarios that have been outlined here. It didn't *need* to be said when it comes to the medic. The scenario, as initially presented, says this medic was out of line. If there's additional information that might be important to the scenario, now's the time to include it.

The argument of "doing what needs to be done" only goes so far. You do what you need to do up to the limit of your training. If that's the case, that you "do what needs to be done", then basics should be allowed to do anything they want. And we all know this isn't a good idea.

If a provider wants to do more than what's currently allowed then it's up to that person to go back to school and work his/her way up to the next level. That's the way it works. This isn't limited to basics. There are situations where I, as a paramedic, knew that certain things needed to be done. I also knew that some of those things were outside my scope and, subsequently, against the law for me to complete. So I didn't do them. And in at least one of those cases, the patient died. It happens. It's called life.

The question has been asked and answered. I'm not sure where the problem lies.

-be safe

[AZCEP]

Based on the information provided, the use of narcotic pain relief was not going to save a life.

You are a BLS provider. You have not had adequate education on the treatment modalities that are in your scope. Whether you have taken it upon yourself to become more educated or not, the fact remains. YOU ARE BLS.

The fact the medic lied on the documentation is just another nail in the coffin.

[stcommodore]

screw all the debate...would 5mg of morphine really do crap for this patient anyway?

[1EMT-P]

The EMT in this case was practicing outside of his scope of practice :roll: & the Paramedic delegated a task for which he had no legal right to do so plus he also filed a false patient care report :roll: ... The bottom line is it doesn't matter how busy the Paramedic was in this case what he did was wrong :!: :!: :!:

[Just Plain Ruff]

Stcommodore, no it probably would not have touched his pain but what happens when the patient arrests after given MS because he was allergic to it.

How would you deal with the issue then?