What would you do?

[Lithium]

Alright, I just ran into a unique situation which I've never encountered before so I'd like some ideas or thoughts about what you guys would do with this. Perhaps it should be in the scenario section, so feel free to move.

Anyways, I just finished working a cardiac arrest. Nothing surprising or atypical about the call except for the fact there was another ALS medic on scene whom I know personally, but he was off duty. He was there because the patient is his wifes mother (so his mother-in-law). He offered to help and wanted to be involved with the care, and since I was the only ALS medic around and could have used the help, I was torn between what to do. I won't mention what occured just yet, but I want to see how others would have handled this.

What would you do in this situation?

Jacob

[Asysin2leads]

Depending on local laws and regulations regarding off duty medical intervention at the ALS level, and whether I was comfortable with him as a medic assisting, it really depends.

[Acosell]

I might allow him to do BCLS, but beyond that I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable having them work on a relative of theirs.

[akflightmedic]

If he is capable, and the local allows, by all means take the help.

I have done it before and I will do it again.

It is all on a case by case basis and I see no reason to not allow them as long as they are "mentally there" with me and doing what is right.

As a medic, I would be pissed if I wasn't allowed to participate in a relatives care, especially if you needed the help. I would not take over but I would participate as much as you allow me.

[vs-eh?]

I wouldn't have an issue with this. However...

I would state to the other person before they do any ACLS procedure that you would be talking to basehospital as soon as possible just outlining what happened. You suggest for them to do the same. Most, if not all basehospitals are far more appreciative if you are proactive and up front with unusual/pseudo legal/correct actions. Given the circumstances, I would be surprised if anything more than "Ok, thanks for telling us, it's understandable" was said/done.

Honesty is the best policy for this. You don't want it somehow getting back through someone that they saw a civilian (in street clothes) starting an IV or intubating a patient. Besides you and your partner, there are 3 FF's and probably a couple of cops. Potential for some issues, if someone saw something like this. Plus, at minimum you are putting your partner in a bit of a jam for allowing this to happen. Just call the BHP, no issues.

In this circumstance though, I assume this person would just be there to start an IV and make things a bit quicker, or pass you things. I know they could potentially do more (intubate, etc...), but really unless it's a really tough airway or something, the IV start would likely be the most common/useful thing.

[AZCEP]

If they are able to separate family from the situation, absolutely allow them to help. Particularly if you have no one else to do so.

[paramedicmike]

I agree with what the others have said. If this person was detached enough from the situation to act professionally and you needed the help then why not?

This serves a couple purposes. It gets you the help you needed. It gives the family a sense that everything that could have been done was done. Presumably, the family likes and trusts your friend. Seeing him partake in an attempted resuscitation could do a lot to relieve their stress and anxiety surrounding the death.

As with everything else, document accordingly.

Hope this worked out well for you. What happened?

-be safe

[jmac]

it is the right thing to do to let them assist,

speaking personally, augestst just gone my mother arrested in front of me, i started CPR and the doc arrived within 4 mins and two ambulance crews within 10-11 mins, and we worked on her for approx 40 mins, alas the outcome was not good, but i can honestly say that being involved really helped with the healing process.

Just because they are a family member do not rule them out because of it, remember that there are more then them to try to come to terms with a sudden incident like this, and being part of it and knowing ( if it is a sad outcome ) that everything that was possible was done, can be passed on internally through the family, ACLS states that if a family wishes to witness resus they should be allowed, in pre-hosp, a trained pair of hands, so long as they know (like i did) that that is all they are, an extra pair of hands.

it really helps, plus the fact you have someone that understands what and why things happened, i know that litigation is a big issue over there, not so much here, but family member help should not be discounted in my opinion.

PS: sorry mike , i just read your post again and saw that is was very similar to mine

[Lithium]

Hello all,

Thanks for your replies. It's reassuring to me that you all said you'd do what I essentially did.

Essentially all I let him do was prepare equipment for me (for intubation and IV cannulation) and then CPR during transport. I believe by bringing him along instead of a firefighter, that it will allow the family to have better coping skills, as he'll be able to confirm everything went smoothly and as best as it could have.

Thanks again.

J

[nsmedic393]

let them help.

Looking at it from the off duty medic's point of view, if it were me and my family I would want to help. And god help the person that tried to get me to stand on the sidelines.