is paramedic really save our live? or harm?

[bradlai]

there are more and more study show that paramedic do not reduce mortality or length of stay in intensive care.

more and more statistics agree that fewer paramedics means more lives saved

WAHT Is YOUR OPINION? do u agree?

is that mean paramedic no need to treat the pt anymore and just provide BLS and rapid transport is enough?

[Dustdevil]

You are misinterpreting the data. It is just numbers. Nothing more. Any actual "cause and effect" relationship is only speculation.

This has been discussed at length here, and you can find some very informative discussion with a little searching.

Good luck.

[BEorP]

I'm sure the (stupid) Paramedic who stays on scene with a major trauma pt as he attempts and fails to get IV access is doing worse than a BLS ride to the hospital would have done.

BUT...

Don't forget that often ALS crews will get the pts who are more likely to die regardless of what is done for them.

AND...

Without Paramedics an unconscious hypoglycemic pt would need to be brought to the hospital just to get D50 and some food. Why not just do this in the field? (just one example of an important ALS treatment that can actually fix the problem)

PLUS...

Without Paramedics, there would be no ACLS. (That one should be self explanatory.)

[Ridryder 911]

Statistically, EMS can not prove themselves to be worthy no matter what level is provided. Most of EMS and especially Paramedic level is preventive medicine, as well as management. Therefore no quantitative studies are accurate to demonstrate their worthiness and value.

The problem in medicine, especially EMS is most are not educated in how to read and decipher studies as well as their flaws. Most students will briefly skim through and read the final conclusion and base their opinion of that statement as gospel. When in fact, the study might have been biased, flawed, or lack enough true data to be fairly represented.

Remember, anyone can manipulate statistics to get the number they want.

R/r 911

[aussiephil]

Ummmm

we call paramedics frogs. Cause everything they touch croaks........

Phil

[dgmedic]

Statistically, EMS can not prove themselves to be worthy no matter what level is provided. Most of EMS and especially Paramedic level is preventive medicine, as well as management. Therefore no quantitative studies are accurate to demonstrate their worthiness and value.

The problem in medicine, especially EMS is most are not educated in how to read and decipher studies as well as their flaws. Most students will briefly skim through and read the final conclusion and base their opinion of that statement as gospel. When in fact, the study might have been biased, flawed, or lack enough true data to be fairly represented.

Remember, anyone can manipulate statistics to get the number they want.

R/r 911

Agreed. Although being well versed in traditional research and statistical methods still will not get to the bottom line. The problem is (and you all know), that trying to control (for the purpose of research) such an uncontrollable environment, poor data is recorded. Although many good studies have come from the military theater, this complication is seen. If you structure a prehospital study as an inhospital.....it just doesn't work well....

To the original poster...look at the domier paper on EMS vs. walk ins and then look at the importance (difficulty and introduction of bias) of appropriate matching.

It is important for us to be active in voicing views on data and the interpretation of that data. Just because someone publishes results does not mean that they have interpreted those results correctly.

Just remember that correlation does not define causation.....

You can see many of these attempted jumps in logic from many authors....look up many of the recent RSI studies (wang's early papers and situational issues...TBI vs. medical vs. pediatric), and many of the obviously biased (even through the peer-review process) papers on steriods in SCI.

The big issue is that: once we find out that a treatment/procedure is not beneficial...we as EMS providers need to willingly stop the procedure and not bitch and whine about "removal of procedure" .....my part....I typically am very reluctant to intubate small kiddo's anymore....if I don't need to have the kid on the vent and just need to bag...I just bag. There is enough data for me to alter this part of my EMS treatments.

-dg

[whit72]

I have heard of these studies also read a few myself. I believe that stating the paramedic does not effect the outcome of trauma pts is a little empty headed.

I believe the information just points to the fact that the human body is not meant to sustain traumatic injuries. It dosent have anything to do with the level of responding providers. Time is the most crucial aspect. So maybe they don't affect the outcome of these pts, I don't believe anyone would.

I did read one study as to the effectiveness of ALS in trauma situations, with short response times in which the receiving hospital was a level one trauma center, there was no definitive difference between survival rates in the ALS pt as opposed to BLS pts or delivery by personal vehicle. I again think this only points to the fact that time is the mitigating factor.

Trauma is multi system damage done internally. The only way to correct that is surgery, if it can be corrected at all.

So Although there are a few paramedics I would like to throw off a bridge at times, to state the paramedic is useless in the treatment of traumatic injuries, I believe is incorrect, a more fitting statement would be that everyone, except the surgeon is pretty much useless.

[Imagine89]

there are more and more study show that paramedic do not reduce mortality or length of stay in intensive care.

more and more statistics agree that fewer paramedics means more lives saved

WAHT Is YOUR OPINION? do u agree?

is that mean paramedic no need to treat the pt anymore and just provide BLS and rapid transport is enough?

Everyone who replied, replied appropriately, so I'll be the one to break it to you:

Go back to school and learn some grammar, and stop with the internet abbrieviations...they make you look unprofessional, and I sure as hell wasn't going to take this post seriously as it was written.

Welcome though.

[JakeEMTP]

Everyone who replied, replied appropriately, so I'll be the one to break it to you:

Go back to school and learn some grammar, and stop with the internet abbrieviations...they make you look unprofessional, and I sure as hell wasn't going to take this post seriously as it was written.

Welcome though.

-5 for being picky. ( also, -5 for mispelling abbreviations )

It was obvious to all the other posters as well as myself when I read it , that the original poster was from another country. It is also painfully obvious that english isn't the original posters first language. I understood as well you did.

+5 to the original poster for their attempt at english and a reasonable first post

[BushyFromOz]

Everyone who replied, replied appropriately, so I'll be the one to break it to you:

Go back to school and learn some grammar, and stop with the internet abbrieviations...they make you look unprofessional, and I sure as hell wasn't going to take this post seriously as it was written.

Welcome though.

Well, let me break it to you.......

See that little flag under bradlai's name? Thats the flag of Hong Kong, so my guess is that english language and all its twists and turns are probably not bradlai's forte

Pull your head in, not everybody here is from the english speaking world