Got Chewed Out For Going Too Slow

[emsbrian]

Whoa chill there buddy. Never said that. Said they were a good resource for me as a supervisor to judge my medics. Their are as many dangers to bad habits as their are from inexperience. Never would I want a medic to be scared to question what they saw as a problem, new or old. And that is what I said their. I knew I would piss someone off, but didn't think it would be about that. I never said that experienced medics are less valued then newbies. We have a big problem with times changing and medics not. But my experienced medics are the life of my business. Without them I would have nothing. Never in my life would I trust a newbie to go teach no matter what. But never would I trust an experience medic until I know they don't have bad habits.

The whole point of my comment as I have said many times on here, is to increase the professionalism of EMS. We must value both experience and knowledge. When one has both they are at a peak of our job. But both have value and dangers by them selfs. I urge the EMS world to be more professional, do not make anyone scared to speak up, and supervisors/managers should treat their employees equal in both listening to them and correcting them.

[emsbrian]

ERDOC:

If is decided that L&S are needed, then it is up to the driver, and him/her alone to make the best decision on how to do that safely.

True, but a little dangerous to say just that. The higher cert is of course in charge, and blamed for everything. So while the driver may be making decisions as to L/S based on traffic and safety, he must try his best to follow the needs and requests of the care medic. Never should a driver decide to go code 1 when the medic needs a code three.

On that note I agree with you on most everything, just wanted to clear that up a little, general statements scare me.

[ERDoc]

ERDOC:

True, but a little dangerous to say just that. The higher cert is of course in charge, and blamed for everything. So while the driver may be making decisions as to L/S based on traffic and safety, he must try his best to follow the needs and requests of the care medic. Never should a driver decide to go code 1 when the medic needs a code three.

On that note I agree with you on most everything, just wanted to clear that up a little, general statements scare me.

The higher cert is not going to be blamed for everything, at least where I came from. The only thing that the guy in the back will be blamed for is making an inappropriate decision to go L&S. It is up to the driver to use due reguard. The drive has sole responsibility for how he/she handles the driving. I wasn't saying that the driver was making the decision to use or not use L&S, but I can see from my post where I may have made it sound like I was saying that. Sorry about the confusion. I actually just reread the original post and can see where this one could justify L&S. You have a BLS crew with a person that is weak and dizzy. For all you know as a BLS provider, this person may be on the verge of going into Vfib or some other rhythm not compatible with seeing tomorrow. Even in the ER the little old ladies that are weak and dizzy scare the hell out of me and I have all sorts of good stuff to check them with. If I haven't said it before, this partner is a tool.

[AnthonyM83]

This was actually ended up being an ALS call (only because they were forced to b/c of the new requirement by the hospital), so medic rode with us. I knew he was doing stuff back there, so in addition to wanting to be safe, I also wanted to give a smoother ride by not having to dodge around stopped cars. The main benefit of my L&S I feel is not waiting for red lights...the rest of the time it's faster to just flow with traffic with lights only (since only law I'm bypassing is the speed limit law, but at flow of other traffic), unless it's totally congested.

[emsbrian]

Places I rode, even if a basic was in the back with a guy who has a stubbed toe, any care he gives is under the "supervision" of the medic. Sorta a bum deal. While I have never seen it play out where anyone gets blamed for anything but what they did, that is the "theory". Didn't mean you had bad advice there ERDoc, just worried some might misunderstand :-)

I think for the most part we have to look at just that Anthony. The ride is the important aspect, Safe and smooth come first, this is patient care and comfort. When expedition is needed the smooth can be reduced for a little shorter time, but safe has to stay. ERDoc makes a good point that most calls do not require L/S, and we transport A LOT normal traffic. So to go L/S is a huge decrease in the time to get to the hospital, as we normally have about a 15-25 minuted drive anyways. We do tend to respond L/S more as dispatchers have to communicate with people who obviously feel someone is about to die and called 911, so their perspective on the needs of the patients may be more severe then the facts once we arrive.

Anyways I'm out on this thread, Great advice guys :-) Sorry for the misunderstanding their Asysin, people seem to browse my posts a lot and not get the whole information. Most the time what I say is no basic advice, as I fear people want just a black and white answer and am trying to give them thoughts about it.

[windsong]

What scares me is hot shot medic drivers out there who have less concern for the way they drive, being that I"m in Calgary and nearly was taken off the road because he cut me off, right he had lights only, I didnt see him coming in my rear view mirror because the last time I looked he wasnt there.

I called EMS HQ and spoke to a supervisor and told them what happened, so he said he would file a report, gave him all the information. Apparently he tells me that it was a new EMT at the helm, just newly hired. Does this make us any less safer now that I know he"s newly hired, oh this just makes my day.

Just because you have a job and it requires you to go fast with lights no siren, does it mean that you can run people off the road to because they dont adhere to your right of way. JUST REMEMBER I DIDNT SEE HIM IN MY REAR VIEW until the last moment when he was taking my front bumper with him.

[MedicRN]

If you truly need to speed (example: working a code) you need to have a PD escort. I know these are rear, but the places I have worked I have tried to work with the PD to be able to arrange them. They respond to all codes when we call them back to dispatcher as on scene with arrest. (along with everybody and their mothers around here) And when we leave they shut down intersections in front of us, so we can go full speed code 3 safe.

I'm a bit late getting into this thread, but I just had to put in my $0.02 on this matter.....

I don't care what kind for rapport you have with your local LEOs; PD escorts (as well as any other caravan of emergency vehicles running hot) are too dangerous to be worth the effort! The only way I would accept a PD escort would be if they were stationary at intersections and not playing leapfrog with me (I despise local funeral escorts for this reason). Other than that, they are useless and dangerous. The public sees the first unit go passed and assumes there are no others following (generally), so they proceed into the intersection only to be clobbered by the next L&S vehicle. I've seen it happen and have almost had it happen to me. I will always turn down an offer for an escort and will find an alternate route to my destination if another unit is L&S from the same scene.

[AnthonyM83]

We'd never get an escort unless it was it was an officer down call. Then, it's like magic...every little intersection blocked, no leap frog even needed.

[OzMedic]

This may be a stupid question but why do you need speed if you are working a code? Why do you even need to be moving? Unless there has been some kind of return of output but then it's not really a code anymore. How is it possible to work a code safely and effectively under L&S transport? The only patient I am transporting under L&S regularly are those that need a surgeon and I am sitting in my seat with seatbelt on doing not much in the way of interventions as a result. If I wanted to risk my life/health for a living then I would have joined the army or FD. I will make a bigger difference by looking after my health and being around longer to attend more patients.

[ks_emt]

see here in kansas we can only respond 10-37 which is no lights no sirens or 10-39 responding lights and sirens. as per state law ems units can only respond 10-39. responding with only the lights on causes too many traffic problems.