Mandatory lunch break a good idea?

[BushyFromOz]

Of course, our employers are loving this 'oversight' because that gives them the lattitude to create long shifts; thereby covering more hours with less and less people.

Too right they are, its an industry wide practice, it dangerous and it has to stop. Changing the culture of people like Medic One will be difficult to say the least

[Dustdevil]

Unfortunately -- right or wrong -- I simply see no way to ensure regular, interrupted meal breaks without eventually creating a major PR disaster. It's only a matter of time before someone goes to the news about it, and there is no way to win once that happens.

[BushyFromOz]

Unfortunately -- right or wrong -- I simply see no way to ensure regular, interrupted meal breaks without eventually creating a major PR disaster. It's only a matter of time before someone goes to the news about it, and there is no way to win once that happens.

True, but i believe that one form of bad publicity is defensible and one is not.

The way i see it is the headline is either going to be "man dies while closest ambulance crew is on lunch break" or "3 die when paramedic fall asleep at wheel, hits tree"

The first headline is based on media hype and the ludicrous idea of response times as THE predictor of patient survival and reliance on it as being the KPI of choice, the other is has been and will be proven again to be negligent. Deaths related from fatigue have and continue to be found by coronial inquests here as a result of negligence on behalf of the employer not ensuring a safe working environment.

[Kiwiology]

Unfortunately -- right or wrong -- I simply see no way to ensure regular, interrupted meal breaks without eventually creating a major PR disaster. It's only a matter of time before someone goes to the news about it, and there is no way to win once that happens.

You know Rob I usually agree with 200% of everything you say but this is a rarity mate ... I have to diagree with that statement.

As I say the Ambulance Service here is obligated to give each crew 30 minutes of uninterrupted break for each 5.5 hours of work.

There are excemptions for a priority medical emergency but there can only be two per 14 hours and four per watch cycle (4 days).

Lets look at the most basic way this can work:

Start at 0630

Break 1200-1230

Work 1230-1800

Break 1800-1830 (finish time)

You can have something like this too

Start at 0630

Break begins at 1200

Job at 1210, no closer resource, ask Team Manager for exemption

Go to job, finish at 1300

Break 1300-1330

Work 1330-1830 (finish)

Keep in mind you are only allowed two exemptions per shift and four per watch cycle (four shifts) when you reach 2 you must have a 12 hour break and when you reach four you must have a 24 hour break.

If you have sufficent resources there shouldn't be a problem in assigning crew to break and moving veicles around to provider cover. Let say my vehicle is on break, we'd move somebody else to that area to cover; and no they don't sit at a gas station they come to my station and enjoy conditions fit for a human.

[Dustdevil]

Problem is, nobody has sufficient resources.

I'm not against guaranteed breaks. I'm just stating that, realistically, they will always eventually result in a PR disaster.

[BushyFromOz]

they willEMS always eventually result in a PR disaster.

[jonas salk]

Eat inside the restaurant or outside.

Then there should be remuneration from the employer for food costs incurred during the shift

Infection control and sanitation. Pretty standard for hospitals and other biohazardous areas.

I don't buy it. Most trucks on the road have the option for side compartments, one could be allocated for storage of personal equipment.

Unfortunately -- right or wrong -- I simply see no way to ensure regular, interrupted meal breaks without eventually creating a major PR disaster. It's only a matter of time before someone goes to the news about it, and there is no way to win once that happens.

Yeah, that's a cop out. There are ways to mitigate it, the service just has to be willing to provide more than just bare minimum in coverage.

[46Young]

My thoughts as a manager but not the one that signs the checks.

Mandatory downtime lunch breaks....NO (we do tell crews to make pick-ups but they all know at anytime they are in service)

BUT

I think there should be some other perks included.

Face it folks an average call takes less than 1 hr in most systems...there is downtime between calls most of the time I know this because your in the bus facebooking, EMTCitying, IMing, and goofing off filliing your partners boots with shaving cream. When it is busy you never think about food let alone having to go to the bathroom.

I think what IS needed if you don't get a 30min downtime lunch is some type of NON-TAXABLE CASH stipend daily for food. So you can stop on the services time to grab taco bell, subway or a hospital caf lunch. This is a win win situation...your crews can eat if they get time to stop and if not they have a few bucks in there pocket. If you decide to brown bag it thats good also. During times when we have major incidents, standby's or extra long shifts we have as managers picked up box lunches from a local deli and a supervisor deliver them to the crews on the road.

This is a sticky subject but I think passing calls to other services or units father away because "Mr or MRS I need to fill my face" is on lunch it makes EMS in a whole look bad and uncaring. We all took an oath to help the sick..so suck it up people or find a job somewhere else.

So I googled "Food taster Jobs" for you "FACE FILLERS" there are plenty out there start looking.

My thoughts whether you like it or not.

+1 on the comments from Bushy and Jonas following this post. Also, kudos to Kiwi's system for doing right by the employee.

"Mr or MRS I need t o fill my face," huh? Food taster jobs? I don't get hungry or have the need to relieve myself while running for hours on end? Are you kidding me? Your piss poor attitude makes EMS admin as a whole look bad and uncaring.

Along with low pay and lack of career advancement, major factors that cause burnout and otherwise make EMS unsustainable as a career are long work hours without breaks, having frequently interrupted meals, and mandatory holdover.

What is your agency's policy on forced OT?

Speaking of holdover, why is it right to keep someone working a 24 hour shift for an additional 12 or 24? I can see doing it in rare circumstances, but not carte blanche. Or even 8 more on top of an 8 hour, 4 on 12, or whatever. My third service experience for Charleston County EMS included frequent 12-24 hour mandations within the 24/48. My schedule resembled a 36/36 or 48/24 on a regular basis. In addition to that, they used the toughbook e-PCR, so reports could be signed at the ED and faxed within 24 hours when completed. Because of this, we would often get another call U/A at the ED, or only a couple of minutes inside. You have to take it. Forget breaks, we would often be moved for coverage at night like SSM.

No official breaks, mandatory holdover OT/mandatory recall, dispatch before availability at the ED and constant call volume for hours on end are all proof that a service doesn't provide enough units to handle the volume. If you stop trying to do more with less (at the employee's expense) and properly staff, these issues will no longer be issues.

Sure, if you don't like it you can quit. I did my time in hosp based EMS and county third service EMS. I kept quiet and did my job well, waiting for the opportunity to leave, as do others who are unwilling to tolerate poor working conditions, pay, and benefits. Where I am now, we have a mandatory no hold/recall list that we fill out to be exempt if we have travel plans, need to care for a sick relative/spouse/child, or have a doctor's appointment (thanks local 2068!). We also cannot be assigned a call while showing at the ED completing documentation.

You probably think that SSM is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Dustdevil]

Yeah, that's a cop out. There are ways to mitigate it, the service just has to be willing to provide more than just bare minimum in coverage.

That is not mitigating it once it starts. That is preventing it, which is a totally different thing.

Yes, preventing it is easy. You simply have to provide adequate resources for the coverage area, and no try to be a cheap-arse, like most services do. But mitigating the PR disaster once it starts is something I have yet to ever see any agency pull off successfully.

[Kiwiology]

I like what our local IAFF man has to say, resources need to be sufficent to ensure adequate breaks. I mean after all ambo's are human too!

The resource levels here sort of just enough to ocver the workload and you do run into problems around people taking breaks however the good thing is that the law is on the crew's side.