EMT's Performing Selected ALS?

[scubanurse]

Why would you let a basic with around 120hrs of didactic and very little practical, no A&P no Bio or Chem start a line that you had to go to school for 1000+hrs for? When I hopefully get my NR this fall... no friggin way am I letting a basic start a line...I worked hard for that skill and they didn't simple as that.

[Ridryder 911]

So inform us on what "ground breaking" and "earth shattering" nationally changes have personally occurred strictly due to your service ? If your discussing Lopressor.. big deal.. worked for a service eleven years ago in a town of 8,000 that had such protocols. As well as having RSI, central lines and even was an approved FDA study for TPa over 20 years ago.. Now here is the kicker.. it was in a town of only 15,000 people but had a huge rural coverage. There are a lot of great services out there.

I ask you as well, is this the only service you have worked for ?

Is this "ground breaking" service, aware that you are allowing their non-licensed/certified personal to "practice" these skills, on duty ?. It is not so much the procedure... if they were at the time they were being monitored by an authorized person and as well being covered by liability insurance (which I am sure this ground breaking service would drop your arse like a hot potato, if they aware this was occurring). Now, I bet if I discussed this with your "risk manager" they would have an opinion on it as well, for a valid reason.

Please be cautious when bragging on a service, then brag on how you are able to violate their policies... it does not paint pretty picture.

R/r 911

[BushyFromOz]

+5 to Asys for making a Star Wars reference with "padwan" :D/ :thumbright:

[FL_Medic]

According to Fl, he lets his EMT's all start IV's. Florida only has EMT-Basics and Medics, and I for all my searching I can not find any formal augmentation courses for an EMT-B to be allowed to start IV's. It is one brave medical director if he allows EMT-B's to be sticking people with IV catheters. Hey, Fl, I was thinking of retiring, may you could give me the name of your county you work in, I'll take a vacation, have some chest pains, and then have some mysterious irreversible nerve damage after on of your basics puts an IV in on me. Whaddya say? I have a feeling I know what the court would say when an untrained medical provider is performing skills like that and causes injury to a patient and you can prove causation. You know, its funny, FL medic whines about egos, but then goes and makes a statement "Sure, the rest of the country says 120 hours of training isn't enough to play with invasive procedures, and neither does any one of the governing bodies of EMS, but you know what, its okay because its under MY supervision." I have an idea, how about you stop trying to play Mr. Teacher Special Person and guiding your padwan learners through the process of an IV, do your job as a paramedic, start the IV, treat the patient, go to the hospital, and call it a day? You think you might benefit your patient a little more that way? You wanna talk about egos? Guys like you love letting people who aren't supposed to be doing certain things do them because they get a certain rush and power trip out of the whole deciding who gets to play and who doesn't. Maybe on the playground you got to rule over all when you had the shiny new ball and could decide who plays with it and who doesn't, but this is the adult world, and you are playing with patient's health and well being by your actions.

Yea, you are completely right buddy. Maybe you missed the part where I said every EMT in our system goes through a class on how to start an IV. Whats the difference between an EMT and a tech in the hospital. Maybe you need to be more open minded. Im threw with ths site it has gone to shit very quickly, you guys aren't here to learn. You know-it-all medics are here to tell everyone if they aren't doing it like you they are wrong. I feel sorry for anyone who works under you. feel free to reply, I won't be reading it.

[medic001918]

The thread doesn't go the way you want, so you'll just leave? That's a great way to demonstrate leadership and the ability to handle some pressure. While I don't agree with all of your statements, you're entitled to your opinion. Noone said we all had to share the same opinions. If we did, this would be a rather boring site to post on and read.

If you can't handle some pressure when the thread doesn't go your way, maybe it's better that you simply go and don't come back. If you ever decide you want to come back and discuss things, I'm sure you'll be welcomed back.

I think all of us can say that we've managed to learn something from this site. Maybe you need to remember that you're not always going to be the teacher. Sometimes you'll be the student.

It's great that they take a class on starting an IV. That still doesn't really seem to be enough to me to allow them to do the skill. I'm big on pushing people to understand the theory of why we're performing an intervention. And if they're doing it under supervision, and I should be watching them I might as well go ahead and do it myself. A tech in the ER (at least where I am) can generally draw blood, but I don't believe they actually start IV's. And the bigger difference is that there are enough people in an ER that everyone can be assigned a task. I can say with relative confidence that if you're partner is starting an IV for you while you're doing something else; that there's probably something else that they could be doing (ventilating the pt, oxygen, bleeding control, etc) that is within their own scope of practice.

But I guess all of this won't matter since you've chosen to simply walk away rather than continue to have an intelligent discussion. Good luck.

Shane

NREMT-P

[Ridryder 911]

When someone cannot justify his or her actions, as well as debate topics intellectually validating statements then I have found them to be only filled with partial statements. When one brags about achievements that is great, when one can back it up. The difference between bragging and B.S. is validation.

Now, you ask what the difference between an ER tech and an EMT performing is simple, the tech is usually performing under someone else's license and as well is in a well controlled environment. The function is more they are performing a "procedure", again under the pretense of under the direct supervision of a licensed person.

Now, why would a service with supposed great caliber waste time and money on educating personnel upon procedures that is not lawfully, and as well increasing liability ? This would be like requiring an ED, RN's on suturing and then not allowing them to perform the procedure. You know as administration, someone now is going to violate the policy since you have exposed and formally previously taught them. Why increase the risks ?

I doubt the validity of such ... again, as well it is not the skill itself hard, the hard part is having the education and knowledge that is associated with each movement & action of the procedure of the skill performed.

R/r 911