Math in EMS

[Timmy]

Stupid question but how big of a part does Math play in EMS?

Like if someone wasn’t at all academic at Math should they consider a career as a paramedic?

[akflightmedic]

Sure you can do it Timmy, as long as you have a basic understanding of basic algebraic equations you will be fine.

I am horrible at math, it is not my strong suit. I took Geometry twice in high school cause I failed the first time. I have a hard time thinking in the way they require. I also took two attempts at college algebra in order to pass.

I just have a really hard time with math and it disinterests me so I think that is part of the reason I didn't apply myself as I should have.

You will use math often in your drug calculations. You need to have at a bare minimum, comprehension of algebra.

[Timmy]

Algebra :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Dustdevil]

I am horrible at math, it is not my strong suit. I took Geometry twice in high school cause I failed the first time.

Wow, you made it all the way to Geometry? You're a farking genius compared to me in high school. I never got past Introductory (read:dummy) Algebra II. Just one step above "Fundamentals of Math" for the total losers.

I didn't do any better in college math than I did in high school. Yet I never have any problems working out drug calculations in my head, quickly and accurately. As you eluded to, mathematics tends to be taught in a really crappy way in this country. It seems the more logically you think, the less likely you are to understand math instruction. Math has become like EMS (or vice versa), in that it is all about "protocols" and training instead of true education. They don't teach kids to actually UNDERSTAND and think mathematically. They just train them to memorise a bunch of "rules," theorums, and formulas that cannot even be explained or justified mathematically. Consequently, those who think logically or linearly have a hard time understanding the foundation, or even the reason why they should know any of this, and they fail, just like me. Ever see that old 80's movie, "Stand And Deliver"? That says it all. Too bad the farked up education system in the US didn't learn anything from that movie.

Anyhow, I think I have said here before that, even though I totally sucked in every math course I have ever taken in my life, I have no problems whatsoever with the algebra involved in medicine. Why? Because instead of trying to learn it from all the stupid formulas they try and teach you, I simply applied myself to figuring it out on my own. It took awhile, but once YOU figure out how to solve a problem on your own, using your own ingenuity, you never forget it, and it becomes easy. Consequently, all the nurses I work with who made straight As in high school and college math still can't figure out a simple drip calculation without a formula and a sheet of paper, and they run to me to figure it out for them rather than even try.

Yes, mathematics is extremely important to the practise of medicine. But failure at formal mathematics learning is not necessarily an absolute indicator that you will have problems in practise.

[Timmy]

Well I did Math for a semester but failed it so I transferred into a Math that concentrated more on ‘life skills’. But this year I’m not doing any… I hate school with a passion! It’s not that I’m not bright or anything it’s more the whole if I’m not interested don’t waste your time and maybe some attention span problems. I’m even crap in biology apart from A&P were I got the best mark in the class and I’m sort of the teacher in health lol.

Reason I ask is quiet stupid really. I worked at an event were my troop was called to a trauma patient medical related. We transported to the field/event/onsite hospital. I got to stand in the corner watching all the professors doen there stuff. They all know I’m the cadet, wana be IC paramedic so they rub it in as much as they can lol. This dude turns round and goes “Timmy I wanted you to tell me how much fluid this gentleman needs based on his weight” then I had to work out how much of this drug he needed (I forget the name) based on how much fluid was going in. I stood there with my jaw on the floor, my mind blank and I gave him the weirdest look. He laughed then the nurse showed me how to work it out but I still wouldn’t have any idea… It kinda makes you feel bad when you’re put in a situation like that…

I shall brush up on my basic algebra skills!

[BlackSheep]

No harm intended but, maybe you should drop the "Timmy" and go w/Tim!

Good luck![/font:54440e0231]

[FormerEMSLT297]

Heah Timmy:

I remember the 2 things that scared me the most about medic school. Math and needles (practicing on each other).

Well the math part of it I struggled with for a large portion of the class. I got some remedial training, and some more remedial training and then all of a sudden my instructor Owen T. Traynor, former NYC Medic and now an MD sat down with me and a few other students as well.

He went over some stuff and all of a sudden it clicked: DD over DOH = VTA etc.

So don't worry if you are a mathematically challenged. Eventually you will get it.

And while I'm at it Thanks Owen I couldn't have done it with out you.... Anyone in the Pa. Area. Owen is the Medical Director for the Paramedic program at the University of Pittsburgh Dept. of Emergency Medicine. He is also co-author of the book Street medics handbook, a former NYC-medic and EMS Instructor in N.Y. and all around great guy.

Former

[Ridryder 911]

I too sucked at math, and probably one of the reasons I did not pursue medical school at a earlier life. I was fortunate to have a wonderful EMS professor that is now a anesthesiologist, that took me under his wing and tutored me in Algebra without me being aware of what he really was doing. It turned out I had a horrible fear of math (as we found out many do).

Later when I became faculty, we designed two courses in cooperation with the science and mathematics division of the university. One was called .. Fear of Mathematics and the other was Math for Pharmacology. They have became a big hit within the local college, and after twenty five years still successful. I even taught it for one year, which is a testimony of itself. Now, after completing advance statistics, chem. etc... I know I could overcome it.

There are many Mathematics for Pharmacology books and workbooks out there. Take your time, find a good math tutor (they do not have to be medical at all) and lower your fears as much as possible by taking courses like i described.

Here is a link with some really good points and clarification for math/pharmacology written by a Paramedic instructor.

http://gaems.net/download/drugcalc.pdf

I wish you the best of luck !

R/r 911

[bbbrammer]

Timmy:

I had a problem with math from 7th grade until halfway through my senior year in high school. For some reason the light bulb suddenly came on and I understood it. Which was a good thing because the only way I was going to college was to take a math scholarship. In alot of ways math is not hard to understand. It just depends on whether you are more left brain or right brain. Most people are right brained which is why most people don't get it. The problem most people also have with learning it in class is most of the time people go into proffesions that they are good at. So if you are good at math and then go on to teach it, you won't be able to understand why so many people have problems with it because "its so easy". To them it is. They don't understand how to teach it several different ways because they get it one way.

My advise is like the others, you do have to have a basic understanding of algebra, but even if you don't get the graphing, the pythagream theorum, or any of the other 'math' names, make sure you learn how to approach a problem with logic. That is the main reason everyone has to take math for every major now. It teaches logic and problem-solving. Not to mention rules and how to follow them. Learn the basic rules of how to do the calculations, practice doing them until you can get them right, and don't worry if you don't understand why you are doing that way, just do it the way it works. People don't understand how they breath in order to breath, they just do it. Maybe later they understand why. Math is like that. Once you learn HOW to do it, the WHY will come later. When you were younger you probably didn't understand why you had to memeorize the multiplication tables, but you learned how to do it and now most multiplication is probably second nature. Have faith, and give it a try. You WILL make it if you really want to.

[Code 8 Paramedic]

wait you mean to tell me Ive been doing MATH and no one told me! Damnit! i hate it when that happens :shock: