EMT-B vs. Medic wage UNFAIR

[Timmy]

$12US = $15AU :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Ok I'm just picking myself up off the floor here...

Let me get this straight; EMT's and Paramedics get paid that :?: :?: That’s insane! Robbery if you will! You poor people! *Hyperventilates* I admire your commitment to humanity!

[akflightmedic]

$12US = $15AU :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Ok I'm just picking myself up off the floor here...

Let me get this straight; EMT's and Paramedics get paid that :?: :?: That’s insane! Robbery if you will! You poor people! *Hyperventilates* I admire your commitment to humanity!

Why so surprised Timmy? The wage argument brings us back to the other topic of education vs training. You already know what is required to be a medic in Aus, Eng, and Can....and those requirements far exceed ours.

We are a night school trade worker, thats it.

You guys go to Uni and devote countless hours towards your education.

Its the chicken and egg debate, which comes first. If enough of us get higher education and demand changes, then the salaries will follow. But as it stands now, we can not demand higher wages when any Joe can come along and obtain the training with minimal effort and be willing to do it for next to nothing or even free of charge simply to be doing it.

Even though I know our wages could and should be higher, our cost of living is still relatively way lower than yours and we don't pay 49% of our wages in taxes either.

[Timmy]

Yeah I know all that but just because we have higher quals doesn’t mean the conditions of work change or the patient work loads are any different.

Please don’t take any offense what so ever to this but I have mates (teenagers) who work as shelve boys at the local supermarket that get paid the same… I doesn’t seem fair!

But I spose the tax thingo would help.

[NREMT-Basic]

This argument is like has more holes than a lace curtain. First of all, we are comparing pay scales in about 4 different countries, so its meaningless to be shocked by the comparison of what the American EMT vs the Aussie EMT makes..its a little thing called the exchange rate. And of course, if you have someone who has faithfully served as Basic with the same agency for 20 or 25 years here in the US vs someone who went EMT straight to Medic in a total of about a year and a half and when they get that job riding with that 25 year medic have months of road time to his 25 years, yes, experience matters. Longevity counts. And those longevity/seniority pay raises arent for nothing. That 25 year EMT has more real-time experience in the box, dealing with patients everyday, than that medic does, regardless of their skill set, scope of practice etc. That Basic knows the community he works in. He knows what areas have the highest level of violent crime calls for example and may well have been on multiple crime scene calls over his 25 years. He most likely has every bit of his area memorized like the back of his hand and knows every short cut to and from the hospital from anywhere in his service area. Ok. So he cant start a line, or drop an ET, but his mere experience, decades of it, have merit. He has real world, real time experience and just like older nurses with younger doctors, he may actually be able to simplify some calls, etc because he no longer rides around with his EMT handbook in his pocket consulting it for every patient. He knows the patients that call you everytime they have a bad day and get drunk and whats more, he knows how his service handles that individual person. And OzMedic, you make a huge assumption, and a totally groundless one, when you say that that 25 year EMT hasnt had one more hour of education or training since he got his cert. That is absolutely the height of egotism, and you know very well it isnt true. If nothing else, he has to maintain CEUs to keep his license. Do you suppose they had AED's 25 years ago when he started? Nope. So he has probably been uptrained to use one. How many times has CPR procedure changed in 25 years? By your fallacious reasoning, he would have just been allowed to ignore those changes and do things the way he did them 25 years ago. This is the problem with rash generalizations: it makes the assumption that because there are some EMTs or even Medics who are willing to to sit back, get most of the CEUs every four years by sitting in on classes, helping out with MCI days, etc. But there are those who constantly work to improve themselves at the level they have chosen to work and they deserve to be respected for it and their pay should reflect it. If nothing else, for doing the same job for 25 years with the same service, he deserves the pay and respect. What would you do? Have him making the same amount as he was making when he started. Its a ludicrous argument, based on ludicrous and outdated concepts. As has been said, deal with it or find another line of work. Experience and dedication to an employer matters and is, in most cases rewarded and there should be no cap on what an EMT or Medic makes just as a general across the board thing. If the owner of a service wants to give that EMT a 2.00/hr raise because he performed particularly well (called a merit increase) and that puts him at a higher rate than some 25 year old who just got his Medic cert, too bloody bad. When youve been a medic for 25 years and a new hire EMT makes more than you do, then and only then would you have something legitimate to whine about. Otherwise, get on with it. That EMT isnt taking money out of your pocket. Youre just griped because you have more initials after your name and he is making close to the same amount of money. If you got into EMS for the money, somebody sold you a great big bill of goods. Its about the patients and thats it. Not how much you make, or how much your EMT partner makes. Its about patient care and quality of service and the fact is that that old, tired but still working for his community EMT has more years of patient care and service than the new medic and that deserves to be rewarded. Ok, so he makes only a few cents less than you do or perhaps more. Wah Wah! Cry me a frigging river. Get over yourself and move on to take care of patients. That is all. We now return you to your regularly scheduled p*** and moan time.

[ncmedic309]

How about an EMT with 18 years in the service making $21/hr vs the Paramedic with 1 years of service making $13/hr? Is it fair to lower the wages of that EMT just because he/she makes more money than the lowest paid paramedic?

I disagree that a paramedics pay should "ALWAYS" be higher than a EMT because every situation presents itself differently. I agree that the hourly wages for paramedics and emts need to be much higher than they currently are, but you need to take in the amount of expeirence and education when considering wages.

[Xnekal]

Longevity and pay seems to be the issue this thread is going...The company I work for has a longevity and Cert level increases...after so many years it caps, and you get a % raise afterwards...an EMT-B that has been at my company for the max number of years will make just about the same as a new medic just starting out...after the medic has been at the company for the max amount of time his pay has increased to more than the EMT-B but the EMT-B has still been getting his annual raises...but at this company Basics either don't stay basics long or they go elsewhere by the time that comes around...

"X"

[steve_m]

I can't believe some of these wages either. In Alberta, a 14 year old kid working at McDonalds makes more than most of the wages posted in this forum. An experienced medic where I live makes about $35/hour.

[ncmedic309]

I can't believe some of these wages either. In Alberta, a 14 year old kid working at McDonalds makes more than most of the wages posted in this forum. An experienced medic where I live makes about $35/hour.

There's no doubt that the pay of EMS professionals in the states is pathetic at best, but you must factor in the cost of living of the two countries and then take another look at the wages. The cost of living in most areas of canada compared to those in the states are higher, which in turn means you will have higher wages...

[steve_m]

Where I live is very cheap actually. But there is no doubt that most other parts of Alberta can be pretty expensive.

[OzMedic]

And OzMedic, you make a huge assumption, and a totally groundless one, when you say that that 25 year EMT hasnt had one more hour of education or training since he got his cert. That is absolutely the height of egotism, and you know very well it isnt true. If nothing else, he has to maintain CEUs to keep his license. Do you suppose they had AED's 25 years ago when he started? Nope. So he has probably been uptrained to use one. How many times has CPR procedure changed in 25 years? By your fallacious reasoning, he would have just been allowed to ignore those changes and do things the way he did them 25 years ago.

What would you do? Have him making the same amount as he was making when he started. Its a ludicrous argument, based on ludicrous and outdated concepts. As has been said, deal with it or find another line of work.

Youre just griped because you have more initials after your name and he is making close to the same amount of money. If you got into EMS for the money, somebody sold you a great big bill of goods. Its about the patients and thats it. Not how much you make, or how much your EMT partner makes. Its about patient care and quality of service and the fact is that that old, tired but still working for his community EMT has more years of patient care and service than the new medic and that deserves to be rewarded. Ok, so he makes only a few cents less than you do or perhaps more. Wah Wah! Cry me a frigging river. Get over yourself and move on to take care of patients. That is all. We now return you to your regularly scheduled p*** and moan time.

Dude, Did you have a bad night or something when you made this post? I just say this because I'm not sure how you have me coming off as some kind of egomaniac who carries on about the initials after my name. Do I even display initials after my name? I'm not exactly sure how my post led you to believe that I don't value the dedication of EMS personnel with lower clinical qualifications. I think if you examine my other posts on this site you will see that I am supportive of EMS of all levels and abhor the superior narrow minded attitudes of other members who constantly post touting the superior levels and abilities of their individual service or country.

My aim in this post and most others is to promote professionalism in EMS and try and move us to where we should be, a group of professional practitioners that deserve and receive respect and recognition from our peers in the health industry. I found your post most insulting and initially wrote a long response to most of your jibes but thought better of it as I realised that I was only doing what you had done. I will respond to part of your post which perplexed me a lot where you admonished me about EMS being about patient care and quality of service and not about money. Honestly mate, why would you be saying this to me? I have put in thousands of hours of extra curricula study in the pursuit of giving the highest level of quality patient care. In all the years I have been in EMS I have never earned as much money as I could easily be earning in any of my previous fulltime occupations. Everything I do in EMS is about the patients including what I do on this site. Anyway, enough said about that! If you would really like me to clarify any of my earlier posts I will be more than happy to but how about asking me to clarify first next time before going on the attack?