Volunteerism in Rural EMS

[pyroknight]

Amen. If you want to keep your job, however, you have to nudge and prod and gently drag the providers kicking and screaming toward the goal of EMS as a profession.

Baby steps, but we're moving forward.

[mobey]

However, I, and the others you speak of, have seen the ugly side of volunteering and do not pull any punches about it. Typically speaking, volunteer EMS attracts many of the wrong people, into doing the wrong things for the wrong reason. For every volunteer service out there who provides professional level service, there are 10 others that the term hit and miss is far from appropriate.

So, when someone comes along stating "Fighting to keep it volunteer!", you'll have to excuse it when people assume its yet another starry eyed hero with a star of life T-shirt, three missing teeth and a couple of tattoos, which unfortunately, compromise a good bulk of volunteer services today.

That is exactly what I am trying to say..Thanks Asys.

The reason I say such statements as the one that started this whole thread is because of experiences I have been involved in.

Example:

At a T-Bone in Alberta - "Sir try not to move your head, now carefully step out of your car and lye down on this board for us." (Then procede to spinal immobilize)

Example 2:

15yr veteran volley EMT sandwiches a kid face down, helmet on, between 2 spine boards after hitting the wall with his head at a hockey game. I spoke with her facilitator and she said "there is not much we can do, if I give her sh*t and she quits the health region will pull our ambulance. (BTW that EMT quit a few months later for perssonal reasons unrelated).

Money is just salt on the open wound, it is all about pt. care to me.

I stand by my original statement.

[EMT857]

I don't post here often, but *ducks* being a volly myself aside from school and such, I have observed a few things.

New Jersey still has a large number of "First Aid & Rescue Squads" that are the primary first responders, with ALS to back up if necessary. Same goes for the Fire Service.

I notice a lot of you guys like to throw around the whole buff, do it for the glory, etc... reasons for people that fight to keep the volunteers in service. While this is true in some cases, there is also another fact that I haven't noticed on here yet. I have run into many people (including my own family) who have moved into New Jersey (specifically central) from NYC and were surprised to find out that if you call 911 for Fire or EMS you're getting a volunteer service responding.

I think a few reasons that these services have not progressed to the creation of regional/county career departments/services is because one, people do not want to pay. They spend $600,000+ on that McMansion, over $10,000 in taxes per year, but do not want to pay for a career service. Parts of Long Island are not much better. Why pay if someone is willing to do it for free right? Lets not forget too, all of these towns are primarily commuter towns.

The thing here is, this is the perfect situation for the volunteer services to thrive. You have residents who are happy not paying for Fire/EMS services and the operational and administrative officers who do not want to see any change stay in power. For every progressive one, there are a whole bunch that are still stuck in their power trip. This causes all sorts of problems for both patient and responder as I'm sure most of you know.

Going even deeper, you have towns that still have fire districts, and overlap of services. It is not necessary for all of these towns to have multiple, independently run Fire Departments and Squads. You have fire commissioners who might be the chief of one department and president of the other. The threat of consolidation and progression scares people in those positions.

Remember what I said about commuter towns? Well who do you think runs a majority of the calls during the day? The people that have lived in town for many years, that have those municipal jobs, and by NJ State Law, let them leave work (staying on the clock) to answer those calls.

Monmouth County is probably one of the best examples of this. There are towns that are only a few square miles with their own independent squads, which maybe have 4-5 members each. Lets not mention that these are also neighboring towns and others that operate like the example above.

Eventually, years down the road I would think these departments and squads will become paid. Until a strong progressive influence comes in, this pattern will continue.

It does come down to what has already been mentioned previously on here and other threads, education. I don't mean just of the provider, I mean the general public. Then maybe some progress might be made.

Obviously I can't speak for the rest of the country, but I know New Jersey has been a target on here from time to time. There are plenty of other issues around here I could pick at, but sleep is to be had.

(Sorry if this is a bit disorganized, it's been a long 2 weeks for me.)

[UMSTUDENT]

There are several B.S. programs that have been discussed (use search), most use the last 2 years for administration or education, etc...

I would think that all meet the standard curriculum and would allow sitting for the NREMT/P examination.

Albeit, a B.S. degree would be preferable, I do not see much employment opportunities for them over a AAS in the field setting.

Good luck,

R/r 911

As someone who just finished my 3rd year of a 4 year paramedic Bachelor's program, I'd have to agree with Rid. Is there a clear advantage in the level of knowledge between our students and most others? I'd say yes. Are we marketable? Questionable.

The truth of the matter is that a card is a card, is a card, is a card....

In my adventures to seek employment I've found that most employers don't care where you've gotten your paramedic so long as you're competent enough to do the job. In fact, I've found mentioning my education can be a hazard. There are definitely some companies out there whose administration balk at the notion of a "four-year" paramedic education. Some of these people have advanced degrees, but seem intimidated by the possibility that you may be more qualified to handle their job. Instead of relying on the obvious advantage of their experience and education, they get worried.

[Dustdevil]

In my adventures to seek employment I've found that most employers don't care where you've gotten your paramedic so long as you're competent enough to do the job. In fact, I've found mentioning my education can be a hazard. There are definitely some companies out there whose administration balk at the notion of a "four-year" paramedic education. Some of these people have advanced degrees, but seem intimidated by the possibility that you may be more qualified to handle their job. Instead of relying on the obvious advantage of their experience and education, they get worried.

There is no doubt about this, unfortunately. There are exceptions, but they are just that... exceptions. Although, those exceptional employers are probably among the very best to work for. And if working for the best is your goal, then you very definitely have an edge with more education.

It is unfortunate, but the pioneers of any struggle are always going to pay a price for the future. That is what those who seek advanced higher education in EMS today are doing. They are raising the bar, slowly but surely, one medic at a time. I know that, at this point, the only thing you get out of it is the satisfaction of knowing that you are better educated and better prepared than the next 180 day wonder medic out of the fly-by-night tech schools out there, who are making the same money as you. But some years down the line, when the next generation has to meet that same standard, we will all owe thanks to you who took the initiative to raise the bar and be the best you could be, without anybody forcing you to.

[UMSTUDENT]

There is no doubt about this, unfortunately. There are exceptions, but they are just that... exceptions. Although, those exceptional employers are probably among the very best to work for. And if working for the best is your goal, then you very definitely have an edge with more education.

It is unfortunate, but the pioneers of any struggle are always going to pay a price for the future. That is what those who seek advanced higher education in EMS today are doing. They are raising the bar, slowly but surely, one medic at a time. I know that, at this point, the only thing you get out of it is the satisfaction of knowing that you are better educated and better prepared than the next 180 day wonder medic out of the fly-by-night tech schools out there, who are making the same money as you. But some years down the line, when the next generation has to meet that same standard, we will all owe thanks to you who took the initiative to raise the bar and be the best you could be, without anybody forcing you to.

Ah, thanks Dust! We disagree a lot (see certs argument), but I don't mind arguing with someone who knows their sh*t.

To add to your comment:

Something that I'm starting to see among graduating, college or university prepared paramedics is a shift away from being proud of your education. There is such a culture in EMS that is against the idea of going to some "stupid waste of money of a school" that less and less students are taking that route. A lot of people in the academic side, community college and university, seem to attribute it to the increasing cost of education throughout the country, but I disagree. I think it’s a combination of those two.

The fire monkeys are doing a great job at discouraging going to school.

[mustangx]

Most of are EMS crew works for prof. ambulance services full time, part time, and some just on weekends. Some of them work at the hospital as well.

[Just Plain Ruff]

guys why pay for something that others will do for free?

[Chief1C]

guys why pay for something that others will do for free?

**Suggests a beating... with something hard and flat, like a hockey stick, or a piece of lumber.