Just Plain Ruff Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 I agree Deano, I have started to read the bible, I've read up to Daniel. What is in the first 5 books of the bible if followed today would lead to a lot of unhappy people.
Scaramedic Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Umm if you are a Christian then you believe that Jesus brought a new covenant with God, ie the old testament and its rules/laws for the most part are null and void. Leviticus and Daniel are old testament. The OT books are mainly used by people of the Jewish faith, hence the name Jewish or Hebrew Bible. Rid & Eydawn can probably explain the new covenant better than I can. Shalom, Marty
Asysin2leads Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Except the thing is, usually when the bible thumpers get up on the soap box and start telling us what God wants us to hear, they are quoting from Leviticus or the Old Testament. The prohibition against homosexuality, to the best of my knowledge, comes from Leviticus, which lays the kibosh on a whole host of activities that good Christians do everyday and don't hold rallies and form political platforms on. The New Testament doesn't say much (if anything, to my knowledge) about homosexuality. Its all about peace and love and tolerance and all that crappy stuff that would get you killed if you preached it in the bible belt.
Michael Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Give me one Christian that follows every single word of Leviticus, and then I'll listen to the self righteous grandstanding. Until then, its just another case of someone trying to convince others that what they believe is the word of God. Keeping it short: a) Christians explicitly don't profess to follow any, let alone every, word of Leviticus. http://www.emtcity.com/uploads/emoticons/default_sad.png' alt=':('> Christianity is the source of our popular societal ideal that condemns self-righteous grandstanding. c) It is not self-evident that either those who try to convince others that what they believe is the word of God, or those who try to convince others that it is not the word of God, are correct. But I haven't noticed anyone here trying to convince others that what they believe is the word of God. Rather, I've noticed people answering the question posed by including what they believe. And no one here has said that meeting homosexuals is or should be problematic, which is the topic at hand. I think I can understand an aversion to zealotry, be it Christian or other, that some here have expressed, because strongly held beliefs sometimes entail intolerance. I've also noticed here that intolerance isn't the monopoly of Christians. I am confident that the problem anyone who has posted here has with homosexuality compromises their behavior toward homosexuals as little as the problem you have with Christianity compromises your behavior toward Christians. That is, not at all.
Michael Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 The New Testament doesn't say much (if anything, to my knowledge) about homosexuality. "They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is for ever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." ~ Romans 1:25-27.
vs-eh? Posted April 4, 2007 Author Posted April 4, 2007 Umm if you are a Christian then you believe that Jesus brought a new covenant with God, ie the old testament and its rules/laws for the most part are null and void. Leviticus and Daniel are old testament. The OT books are mainly used by people of the Jewish faith, hence the name Jewish or Hebrew Bible. But aren't Jesus and God the same person? Anything less is POLYTHEISM...and that's a big no no. Almost a Norse (amoung others) no-no... So then God (and all that en tales) made mistakes within the OT, and Jesus (who is God too right) corrected them? Again, why (HOW!?) does an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscience being simply make mistakes or poor judgments? And if it is not God (Jesus) who made the mistakes, and it was man then...If God made man and granted him free will (too have hardcore gay sex), then either God wants people to sin (go against his word) or God can limit itself (and in turn is not truely "God"). I would also like to purchase this decoder ring that a lot of people seem to have that tells them which passages of their holy text are literal, figurative, allegories, mis-copying by man, etc... If God cannot ensure a faithful representation of his word to be in its holy books, then it is pretty tough to believe in a God period. People don't like the practice of homosexuality because of religious doctrine. Homosexuality (the act, not the individual who practices) without relgion's fears/concerns is basically moot. You don't see Chimpanzee's/Bonobo's or any other member of the animal kingdom going (forgive me) ape shit over the homosexual practices that the species may practice. Why isn't the proliferation of pornography a key governmental/election point? I kind of snicker every time I watch porn and see the (usually woman) has a golden cross around her neck...
Michael Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 But aren't Jesus and God the same person? Anything less is POLYTHEISM...and that's a big no no. Almost a Norse (amoung others) no-no... So then God (and all that en tales) made mistakes within the OT, and Jesus (who is God too right) corrected them? Again, why (HOW!?) does an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscience being simply make mistakes or poor judgments? And if it is not God (Jesus) who made the mistakes, and it was man then...If God made man and granted him free will (too have hardcore gay sex), then either God wants people to sin (go against his word) or God can limit itself (and in turn is not truely "God"). I would also like to purchase this decoder ring that a lot of people seem to have that tells them which passages of their holy text are literal, figurative, allegories, mis-copying by man, etc... If God cannot ensure a faithful representation of his word to be in its holy books, then it is pretty tough to believe in a God period. People don't like the practice of homosexuality because of religious doctrine. Homosexuality (the act, not the individual who practices) without relgion's fears/concerns is basically moot. You don't see Chimpanzee's/Bonobo's or any other member of the animal kingdom going (forgive me) ape Ca Ca over the homosexual practices that the species may practice. Why isn't the proliferation of pornography a key governmental/election point? I kind of snicker every time I watch porn and see the (usually woman) has a golden cross around her neck... Hi, vs-eh? To answer your questions: Yes, no, He doesn't, and Amendment I to the Constitution of the United States. I'm so glad we had this little chat!
ERDoc Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 I didn't want to get involved with this discussion and I will not post my beliefs on homosexuality or the church at this point. To play devil's advocate, there is a large talk about the bible and how it denounces homosexuality. My question is, what gives the bible so much power? How is it any more than a book written by a bunch of guys looking to control a population who said that it was the work of god, their god specifically? How would it be any different if I wrote a book with a few guys and said that it was from god? Why would no one believe me (I would probably end up in a psych ward)? What makes it any different/
vs-eh? Posted April 5, 2007 Author Posted April 5, 2007 I didn't want to get involved with this discussion and I will not post my beliefs on homosexuality or the church at this point. To play devil's advocate, there is a large talk about the bible and how it denounces homosexuality. My question is, what gives the bible so much power? How is it any more than a book written by a bunch of guys looking to control a population who said that it was the work of god, their god specifically? How would it be any different if I wrote a book with a few guys and said that it was from god? Why would no one believe me (I would probably end up in a psych ward)? What makes it any different/ There is no difference, and this happens all the time. But currently (who knows in a 100 years or so) we call them cult's... I could also write a book extrapolating on shark attacks, people eating puffer fish (my supreme being wanted them too feel all tingly and die, why does man interfere), space shuttle disasters, etc...Base them on historical fact and EXTRAPOLATE them (that is the key) into some type of almighty power/prophesy. People have any arguments against me? "My God works in mysterious ways, that you and I aren't supposed to know. You will know in the afterlife." Unfortunately, nobody knows about this afterlife...Pretty neat and tidy isn't it... We don't live in an age of unknowing (generally). We did 2000 years ago. Religion (and it's tenants against certain things like homosexuality) falls short now. Rational people don't think that they should be killed for saying "God damn it", having sex out of marriage, or coveting a person's ox. 2000 years ago maybe people had issue, but today they know (generally) better. 2000 years ago, the sun revolved around the earth and "evil spirits" caused illness. They don't any more. People can have faith in a higher power. People can think that when they die, they will live on. Fair enough. Just don't drag in other issues, that men thousands of years ago didn't care for or didn't understand. Keep your God to yourself, but please people, live in reality...
Scaramedic Posted April 5, 2007 Posted April 5, 2007 People can have faith in a higher power. People can think that when they die, they will live on. Fair enough. Just don't drag in other issues, that men thousands of years ago didn't care for or didn't understand. Keep your God to yourself, but please people, live in reality... Fine we will keep our god to ourselves as soon as you stop stirring up debate centered around religion and change your avatar. You keep your lack of faith to yourself and will keep our faith to ourselves. Otherwise your just being a hypocrite and a troll, stirring up debate and then bitching about the opinions people post. Oh who am I kidding this is what you live for. :roll: Peace, Marty
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