Defib design - What's the problem?

[mrotondo]

Hey everyone, I'm doing a design project for a college course with the goal of designing a defibrillator that is head and shoulders above those currently available. We hope to create a product which is both easier to use and more functional, but we need help to correctly identify the biggest problems with today's defibrillators. And who better to say what those problems are then you, who use them all the time in your daily work?

So, if you could list a few of the biggest issues you have with the defibrillators you use or see used, I would really appreciate it. From weight, to button layout, to artifacts: Anything you see as a real problem with using defibs in the field.

Thank you!

[jamiepcp]

Weight in defibs is definately an annoyance. Thats about the only complaint I have!

[brentoli]

Are you talking about AED's or full blown she bang bang defibs?

I am just a BLS provider, but the biggest thing I see is non standard connections between the pads. You should be able to put your pads from your AED on the patient, and when ALS arrives they should be able to take the AED off, and hook up their box with no difficulty. I know adapters are made, but we all know how small things and us get along.

[mrotondo]

Thanks for the quick answers!

We're looking at manual defibs like the LP12, which from my research seems to pretty dominant in the market right now.

[Dustdevil]

We're looking at manual defibs like the LP12, which from my research seems to pretty dominant in the market right now.

Be sure to understand that the LP12 is dominant for one reason only: name recognition. It is very definitely not because Medtronic produces a superior product. It has more to do with the superiority of their salesmen than of their product. Lifepak established an early dominance in EMS because they were the first to come out with something small and lightweight, and relatively durable. Datascope is the only other manufacturer who produced anything even remotely comparable throughout the 70s, 80s, and up to the late 1990s. Now a few Johnny-come-latelies have started producing comparable devices which are actually better than the Lifepak, but name recognition and brand loyalty is a hard habit to break. And for a department to switch brands, they would have to also switch their entire battery support systems too, since the batteries are not compatible with the thousands of Lifepak batteries they already have. So, without getting too carried away, here are my initial recommendations, most of which you already have covered:

• 1. Smaller

2. Lighter

3. More intuitive layout of controls

4. Uses Lifepak batteries

5. Less pointless bells and whistles that are not necessary in the pre-hospital environment.

6. Bluetooth technology sensors, so you don't have BP, Sp02, and EKG wires and tubing getting tangled up all over your patient.

• The LP12 was obviously not created for the pre-hospital environment. It was created for the hospital environment, then they just put a handle and a tough case on it. Same thing with the Zoll, although at least it is smaller and lighter. Philips seems to be the only one that has put any serious thought into field ergonomics, and theirs is still a bit unwieldy.

[BEorP]

Better battery life would be nice so you don't get stuck changing it on a call or plugging it in on an arrest... I know it's not that big a deal but it would be nice. I like a lot of stuff about the Zoll E series like the colour screen, NIBP, easier to carry design but I'm not a big fan of the slightly increased weight over the M.

[celticcare]

With a few new defibs being released and being a while since this thread was orginally posted, do we as providers feel any changes have been made?

The idea of Bluetooth device recognition is something I still havent seen on any units yet and I agree with dust, the cables and wires are just horrific to work around, especially when tranporting out of the ambulance to the emergency department and postitioning the monitor where it can be out of the way, still usable and reachable in the event you need to.

[Just Plain Ruff]

My thoughts would be to make the units lighter but that's been said already

How about universal connections - that's been said before

What I would like would be a keyboard style monitor to enter the patient name and etc.

I would also like to see one that can easily be connected to our stretcher - lp12's do not offer good handles for this job.

For the 12 lead how bout electrodes that can be used by most commercially available 12 lead (hospital ones) machines

A recording feature or an easily used set of buttons for when each med or intervention is done. Right now on the LP12 you have to go to options and then hit a button and then scroll thru the choices

Bluetooth/cell capability to fax the 12 lead to the ER

And other stuff

[brentoli]

My thoughts would be to make the units lighter but that's been said already

How about universal connections - that's been said before

What I would like would be a keyboard style monitor to enter the patient name and etc.

I would also like to see one that can easily be connected to our stretcher - lp12's do not offer good handles for this job.

For the 12 lead how bout electrodes that can be used by most commercially available 12 lead (hospital ones) machines

A recording feature or an easily used set of buttons for when each med or intervention is done. Right now on the LP12 you have to go to options and then hit a button and then scroll thru the choices

Bluetooth/cell capability to fax the 12 lead to the ER

And other stuff

How about a strecher that will accomadate the monitor?

[krumel]

Bluetooth. Even when not FDA certified, this device is working exactly with what I think you meant:

http://www.corpuls.com/en/corpuls3.html

You can "break apart" the hole system so you take the "monitor" while the patient box lays on the stretcher and the defib is carried by your trainee;)

But back to topic:

Here's my "I want" List..The first one is the most important one, the second one is less important, etc.

1. Blue tooth capabilitiy to separate the patient box (and maybe the defib part) from the monitor as well as an solution to transfer event records, etc. to the ED.

2. The system has to be as lightweight as possible, needs a good way to connect to the stretcher as well an design of the hull to be carried by the provider in as many positions as possible. The optimum of course would be a system that is so small that you can put it in your bag/rucksack.

3. I want a system that has TWO batteries and that loads them automatically when I put in its mount in the ambulance. And I want an place for one or two extra batteries within the vehicle mount. (hope you understand me.... couldn't find out how this thing is called.)

AND I want the system to tell me how long it's batteries might last in the current mode.

4. I want an system that has an multi-color monitor that I can read from even if the sun shines onto us. And an sound system with different warning sounds that make me recognize the type of the alarm and the severity of the alarm by the sound. (anyone from the ICU's might know what I want... the feeding pump often has an much more disturbing alarm than the respirators)

5. I want an system that can print as minimum 3 (better 6) leads simultaneously, that has an event recorder that give me the ability to print events that were 60 sec. before I pressed the "PRINT" button and that gives me an good way to document based on what situation I'm in (f.e. when in AED/arrest mode the system buttons are "intubation" "epi", etc. while in "normal mode" the buttons might be "i.V. obtained", etc."

6. I want buttons to the get to all important features directly (a must is: AED and manual defib mode, changing the leads and lead-presets, the amplitude, the pacer mode, the print and even recorder mode) and I want those buttons grouped logically and coded by color so I can identify them even in an dark surrounding (and BTW: I want buttons that are backlighted)

7. I want a system that has all its essential part redundant and that constanly checks them, including the important cables and modules. No more broken defib cables that worked perfectly fine at the beginning of the shift.

8. I want an universal plug for the defib pads, an invasive pressure measurement system that is compatible with the all big systems used within the ICU'S.

9. I want an system that can work with user levels. The BLS provider only is allowed to use the AED mode, when the ALS provider arrives he identifies himself somehow (I thought about fingerprint, but thats not that good because you have to took your gloves off...Maybe something like an "keyless go" system like many cars have?)

10. and of course: I want the hole system complete idiot prove.

And of course, this should cost at least ten bucks;) Because otherwise my chief want buy it