The stupidification of ACLS.

[usalsfyre]

Holy thread revival Batman!

That said....the whole attitude of "just wanting to pass to keep their jobs" is disturbing to me. If your commonly working with peri-arrest and arrest patients "passing just to keep your job" is unacceptable.

There's no reason for it to be boot-camp, or in any way disrespectful. But the handholding of regular ACLS is a disservice to patients.

[crotchitymedic1986]

While I agree with you that the "boot camp" method might not be the best teaching method, I would also point out that the "let everyone pass" method is not education at all. For the last 3 ACLS classes I took, I never bought or opened the ACLS book, which is sad. All of the written question answers were provided verbally before the test, and the megacode was a joke. Imagine if the recert for airline pilots was as easy as ACLS, would you get on a plane ?

[kohlerrf]

This is the exact reason why I gave up all of my AHA instructor certs. The AHA is dumming down the curriculum in order to appeal to the masses to generate more income form more and easier classes instead of requiring the masses to put in the time to learn and practice so you get it right!

[Just Plain Ruff]

While I agree with you that the "boot camp" method might not be the best teaching method, I would also point out that the "let everyone pass" method is not education at all. For the last 3 ACLS classes I took, I never bought or opened the ACLS book, which is sad. All of the written question answers were provided verbally before the test, and the megacode was a joke. Imagine if the recert for airline pilots was as easy as ACLS, would you get on a plane ?

So you don't advocate a passing score of 64 or 60%?

that's what one of my last ACLS classes consisted of. Had a person take the test, failed it at 60%. They appealed the score, saying that they had a learning disability which made test taking difficult. The director of the class asked them to answer the questions they had gotten wrong, she read the questions. This would have been ok had the person not have gotten the answer key to review their answers prior to being re-tested.

If you lower the score bar, then you would end up just like,.... wait for it..... ahem..... wait for it.... scroll down.......

keep goin

keep scrolling

keep on scrolling

Here comes the answer

Chicago Fire department!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crotchitymedic1986]

Good one ruff, you almost got me lol.  But I would say the difference in the two is that no one is being discriminated against in ACLS, everyone has the opportunity to study for ACLS - using the same book, and the same ACLS curriculum is used nationwide.  So if I am taking ACLS in Indiana or Hawaii, and I have studied the material, I have an equal chance in both places (unless the instructors are racist and give me harder scenarios at the mega code to fail me intentionally -which i am not saying that happens).  And if ACLS fails me due to that, or has a faulty test, there is a way to appeal.  When applying for the job, I have no idea what the winning candidates scored or why they were chosen above me, and there is no way to appeal a bad decision (other than sueing)

When applying for a job it is different in every single city, county, state.  I have no idea what they will ask me or what is on the test, so I cannot "study" for it.  In big cities, the testing may have been created by a testing company or university, but in most towns and counties it was written by Joe Bob who works for the department.  So if you would create a national employment test that would be used by every single department (similar to the National Registry Test for certification or ACLS), then I would have no pity or arguement for the people who fail, regardless of race.

You guys keep wanting to ignore the fact that the court ruled that there was discrimination here. I did not make it up like a scenario.  The facts are the facts.

Edited August 24, 2011 by crotchitymedic1986

[ERDoc]

And courts have never been wrong? Based on precedence, the 13th amendment should have been ruled unconstitutional based on, at minimum, the Dred Scott decision.

Do I really believe this? No, but it shows the courts can be wrong.

[crotchitymedic1986]

I would agree with that statement DOC, for instance we know that we have convicted several innocent people based on eyewitness testimony and later found that the person was found innocent through DNA. But this isnt that kind of case. If there was not enough evidence this case would have not made it to trial. And this is not the type of case that demands a call to action -- meaning if a child was murdered, there is a reason for a police department and jury to seek and find the killer (someone has to pay). In this type of case there are two sides disputing the facts, and I would say it would be harder to side for the plaintiffs than the defendants on this one, because the plaintifs have to prove discrimination happened. I was not there so I can not verify what the overwhelming evidence was that made one side lose and one side win, but if the test was written on a 5th grade level by a black man, how could the defendants have lost unless something else was going on ? Neither of us know everything that happened, maybe some more details will come out in the days ahead, but I am betting there is something else at work here besides some poor grades.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Good one ruff, you almost got me lol. But I would say the difference in the two is that no one is being discriminated against in ACLS, everyone has the opportunity to study for ACLS - using the same book, and the same ACLS curriculum is used nationwide. So if I am taking ACLS in Indiana or Hawaii, and I have studied the material, I have an equal chance in both places (unless the instructors are racist and give me harder scenarios at the mega code to fail me intentionally -which i am not saying that happens). And if ACLS fails me due to that, or has a faulty test, there is a way to appeal. When applying for the job, I have no idea what the winning candidates scored or why they were chosen above me, and there is no way to appeal a bad decision (other than sueing)

When applying for a job it is different in every single city, county, state. I have no idea what they will ask me or what is on the test, so I cannot "study" for it. In big cities, the testing may have been created by a testing company or university, but in most towns and counties it was written by Joe Bob who works for the department. So if you would create a national employment test that would be used by every single department (similar to the National Registry Test for certification or ACLS), then I would have no pity or arguement for the people who fail, regardless of race.

You guys keep wanting to ignore the fact that the court ruled that there was discrimination here. I did not make it up like a scenario. The facts are the facts.

I'm all for a nationally recognized test for hiring people. that way it's generic the whole country wide.

The black's would have no reason to bitch and moan or claim racism because it's nationally and I'll bet all the court challenges would be settled prior to the test going nationally.

The whites would have no reason to bitch and moan because the blacks were treated differently.

No-one gets treated differently.

hell, why not just make a statewide job applicant pool. Each applicant is trying to get the same type of job. have a nationally recognized test for applicants to take, then put those who passed the test into a pool and when a position opens up or open positions are available then they call those applicants who are on the list. the applicant can either say "yes I'll take the job or No I won't" they can even put down geographic preferences and if there are open positions at a department in lets say west missouri, the applicants on the list are called. those with geographic preferences that match the locale where the job is at are given calls first.

That might not be fair on the location requirements. Maybe just call the person and say There's an opening in the KC MO fire department, are you interested. If they say yes, then they go on to the interview process and if they say no, then they are put at the bottom of the list.

The test is given 1 time a year or once every 6 months in each state. Take the test or not, your call. But the only way to get hired on any fire department is to take the test. If you don't take the test, then you don't get on the list.

the applicant pool is updated after each test. You may not get called at all or you might get called. You would be rated on how well you did on the test.

sorry, the racism is out of the equation because the test had been vetted as non-racist in the courts or by specific experts in the field of testing, the test is determined to be the same in LA as it is in Minnesota and the same in Bangor Maine.

Do you think that might solve the problem?

Edited August 24, 2011 by Ruffems

[usmc_chris]

You want to feel good about survival, join the Marines and be a combat medic.

Not to be off-topic, but you CAN'T join the Marines and be a combat medic. We don't have them. Which is why, after 6 years in the Marine Corps Reserve, I'm working on re-enlisting in the Navy Reserve, in order to become a Corpsman, in order to transfer back to work with the Marines as a combat medic. Figures I should do the same thing in the military I do in the civilian world.

As to the topic, I too, believe that ACLS could be more in-depth. The first time I took it, I was an EMT-B. I scored 100% on the exam. Of course, I had no freakin' clue as to what the WHY was for any of the treatments, which is something, I think, that is much more important than the WHAT.

[croaker260]

For what its worth, I had a course audit of our PALS and ACLS courses., There are some new changes coming down that should ramp up the intensity (a little) and the standards (a little) of the ACLS and PALS.

The only problem I see is that the Training Centers dont monitor and enforce things like this as they should, and many instructors will continue to succumb to pressure and pencil whip the courses

In Short, the problem is the instructors as much (or more) than the AHA.