The stupidification of ACLS.

[Asysin2leads]

Another cellar hole saver weighs in. Shouldn't you be rushin in to battle the red demon as the flames rage and stuff or whatever? Leave the medicine to the professionals and go get another tattoo.

Why is it almost every single firefighter who comes on here acts like a complete and utter a--hole? You just further my opinion.

[scope2776]

I take my first ACLS class in about 3 weeks, at the end of P school. We've been studying the algorithms and scenarios in class for sometime.

I cannot comment on the watering down of the ACLS class, but I do think the curriculum has suffered in the last few years and most notably after 2005.

It really annoys me that on numerous places on the algorithms the books states, "consult expert opinion". It's almost like a slap in the face. Also in my flip-book there's a whole paragraph about how Amiodarone should only be administered by a doctor experienced in cardiac care. Yea right....

[Thunderchild145]

I took my initial ACLS 2 months ago and I have to admit, it did seem really, really easy. I spent the two months before that hearing horror stories of ACLS megacodes gone wrong and entire classes failing only to not have a single person in my class fail. I thought maybe it was a fluke.

Guess I was wrong.

Anyway, it is dissappointing to hear that the education (if you can call it that) that I got in the ACLS course is "watered down". Course I also knew from day one that since ACLS-I was that easy I'd definately want to try my hand at ACLS-EP.

Does anyone know if the experienced providers course has been "watered down"?

[Ridryder 911]

ACLS for Experience Providers is multi disciplined. Part of the problem for most medics is that it addresses lab values, and practices not routinely performed in the field setting. Not, that Paramedics should not have knowledge in that area, just that many are not exposed to those tests and environment.

My problem is locating these type of courses. Since, all hospitals require ACLS for license providers for JCAHO and EMS providers require the initial ACLS course and nothing more, these are the most popular and most provided courses. ACLS for experienced providers is usually for physician or practitioner level, addressing a more in-depth type scenarios and it is usually located in teaching hospitals. I do agree, that AHA should develop programs for emergency providers and those providing these services should require such certification. AHA's ACLS is not really advanced anymore and does not meet the requirements and objectives to educate those responding and treating cardiac emergencies on daily basis. Most cardiologist I have met have the opinion ACLS and AHA's format is a laughable format and joke, describing the treatment is made to simplistic for a decrease in morbidity to occur.

We even have X-ray tech's with no prior cardiac training obtain ACLS. For fun, I allowed our janitor to attend the course and he was able to pass such without problems. So much for validity!

R/r 911

[AZCEP]

I take my first ACLS class in about 3 weeks, at the end of P school. We've been studying the algorithms and scenarios in class for sometime.

Unfortunately, this is what ACLS has become. Memorize a few steps of an algorithm, and don't worry about thinking. At some point you will discover that you want/need to know what those steps are going to do to someone.

I cannot comment on the watering down of the ACLS class, but I do think the curriculum has suffered in the last few years and most notably after 2005.

It's really been more of a change in the method that the classes are taught, than a strict change of curriculum. This is not unique to ACLS either. PALS and BLS courses have gone through the same dilution. I can support the change in the BLS course because we want more people to feel that they can do CPR, but for the "advanced" provider these classes are almost insulting.

It really annoys me that on numerous places on the algorithms the books states, "consult expert opinion". It's almost like a slap in the face.

In my ambulance, with limited radio contact and little time to call someone to discuss the situation, I guess I'm the "expert". Maybe, just maybe there will be a push from providers to return these programs to a level of respect, but somehow I doubt it. :roll:

[mediccjh]

Rid, AZCEP, and Asys, once again you all beat me to it and took the words out of my mouth.

Bucketfairie523, I'll call you if my patient is on fire.

NOTE: That was NOT a jab at all firefighters. Most of my friends are, and they do something I can't do. It's just a-holes like 523 that give them a bad name.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Again, firefighter523 comes out to bless us all on his wisdom.

ACLS is not meant to save someone from a code, it is meant to prevent it from happening if that is possible.

Yes we are all students yet I have never required more than one attempt to pass ACLS even back in the early 80's when ACLS or Pals or whatever other classes have been dumbed down.

I would need the fingers and toes of about several friends in order to count the number of people that it took more than 2 tries to pass ACLS.

[tniuqs]

Well:

Its is not very difficult to see the difference in a Professional vs a silly monkey in this thread....I need say no more? ooh but I will, It is quite interesting with the implimentation of new CPR standards that some improvement to ER door is up to 9 % in some areas ?

firefighter523, just polite suggestion, you SIR (a loosely applied term) are in the wrong place and your dedication and attitude is deplorable.

cheers

[Scaramedic]

Bucketfairie523, I'll call you if my patient is on fire.

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are!!!

Bucketfairie.....

Peace,

Marty

[scratrat]

When I took it for medic school years ago, it scared the crap out of me. CJH, I went thru the big "V" when Regina and Scott were still in charge. Him and his fake hand scared me a little. It was cold. Ew.

Now I feel it's a waste of my time and energy. Why not just say, you're a paramedic, you've worked codes, here's you new card. Unless they change something, like this year, it's pointless for me to get out of bed to go.

And the doctors...OMG :shock: :shock:

Nothing scares me more then listening to someone with MD after their name, trying to figure out the dose for epi or atropine in an adult code setting....wow.