Damaged property and what you did to fix the situation?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Has anyone ever damaged a patients property while in the course of a call? I know many of you have. The question I have is what did you do to rectify or fix the situation?

I had a call where myself and the police sergeant broke a door down. When the door swung open after the 4th hard kick the window in the door made contact with a coat rack and shattered.

We took care of the patient and then returned later that day and began repairs of the window and door.

Has anyone ever had a situation where they felt a need to repair the damage done?

[Ridryder 911]

Dependent upon the situation. I have seen bosses send some guys to repair door facings and molding where the stretcher had marred the finish. This is usually from caused by from medics carelessness. If we have to kick in the door etc. the homeowners are responsible for damages.

R/r 911

[NREMT-Basic]

Actually, this happened to me relatively recently. We got toned out to an MI and when we got there could here the elderly gentleman screaming painfully for help from inside the apartment. I opened the door, but the safety chain was on. I put my shoulder to it and in doing so, did some damage to the door frame where the chain slide was attached. Unfortunately, the patient coded and did not survive, but we sent information to the landlord of the apt building stating what we had done and why and that we would replace the damage if necessary out of the agency's pocket. The landlord said no, that he understood why we did what we did and that he would just get it fixed. Ive also run on a call where we had to break a window to get to a seizing patient (with police permission to gain entry). Once inside, we were able to take him out through the front door and again we offered to pay for the window, but the homeowner/patient again refused and thanked us for getting in to help him and repaired the damage himself.

To me this brings up an interesting notion: here, we are technically supposed to get police authorization to gain forcible entry, though usually we do it first, explain it later and have no problems. Now fire fighters certainly dont need any permission to start chopping down doors to get in to save a life, so i wonder who among us thinks that we should have to have authorization from LE to do the same thing and further, under what circumstances/protocol would you always gain entry? Is it when you can see/hear the patient but cant get to them? If the patient has called 911 but then cannot let you in, do you have comms do a call back and if they get no answer do you force your way in? I know we talked about this alot in school, but we never really came up with a satisfactory answer. I talked to my father who was a LEO for 36 years and its his belief that if you know you have a patient in dire straits who cannot get to the door, they you are within your rights to force entry.

I look forward to what others have to say.

[nremtp]

Kicked a door in once causing a lot of damage to the door frame (I'm not a small guy) the patient asked us to do it so no lawsuit.

On the other hand I have had legal documents requesting my attendance due to a lost walking stick (and a cheap £1 one at that), lost spectacles and a damaged MDF cabinet from MFI where the stretcher rubbed against it.

I would never offer to repair something unless I negligently broke it and in any case I am sure our insurance would meet the cost of any expensive repairs. Damage caused in the course of my duties is not my problem, I note it on the PRF and tell my dispatcher (yes it's MY dispatcher and nobody else can have her/him)

[medic001918]

When it comes to forcible entry, I base the decision more on the nature of the call. Does it sound like a life threatening call? Or does it sound more like someone just needs a ride to the hospital? I know that dispatch information is not always the most accurate, but often times it's all we have to go on. If you are called to a residence, you have an obligation to investigate the call to the best of your ability. And that includes taking a door or window down to do so if necessary. The only thing is that if you do force entry, you need PD to respond to secure the residence after you're gone. If you force entry and then leave without having an officer there to "secure" the location, you open yourself to potential problems. And the FD is always willing to break doors for us if need be. I've only seen one occasion where I wanted them to take a door and they wouldn't do it until checking every window for an entry option (including a ladder to check second floor windows). And that was for a patient who could be seen "unresponsive, but breathing" on the floor of the living with a diabetic history. For the most part though, if you ask them to do it they will do so without hesitation.

Shane

NREMT-P

[nremtp]

In the UK we are legally expected to check for an alternative entry before making a forcible entry, kicking a door in without ruling out other options is illegal.

We often ask the police to attend and 9/10 times we are told they are either not available or we end up waiting hours for them! I have sat outside a house for 3 hours before waiting for the police in a non life threatning call.

If it's life threatning I will try and break in if I have to and inform my dispatcher so that the police can attend to secure the premises.

I would rather the fire brigade forced entry than me as they have specialist tools but fire don't like being woken from their slumbers for anything less than a 3 tender job :wink:

My crew mate broke his ankle trying to kick a door in last summer which was funny to all but him. The door was reinforced with a steel fire proof core and he just took a running kick at it. Door didn't so much as shake but he was on the floor in agony

[Niftymedi911]

funny you should ask this question Ruff, Sat night I ran a mvc call. Rescue parked their truck diagonally across the road while on scene in a residential neigborhood. Lady was stoned and doing 70 mph and went head first into a 5 ft deep ditch. If it wasn't for the ditch it would of been the house. Anyway, rescue was still 10-6 on scene and we had a priority pt in the back, the only way to get around the rescue truck was to go off road around them to get back to the road. Well we have those extended cab freightliner MAV's and the rear end is a pain in the ass. Made it around the rescue truck but when the rear end swung back around when I turned and head for the road, I clipped and took out a black mailbox. Notified dispatch and my shift commander at thie time and a supervisor met me at the hospital to do a report. Being told that I have to replace the mailbox.

[medic001918]

...rescue was still 10-6 on scene...

Remember not to use codes when leaving posts. Different agencies often have different codes even in the same jurisdiction. Just something to think about. I've seen codes used a few times.

Shane

NREMT-P

[Just Plain Ruff]

I think that he was trying to say via a 10 code that the fire truck was busy but the only 10-6 I've ever been exposed to was that someone was busy.

[Asysin2leads]

10-6 for the voice.

One of these days, one of you is gonna kick the door down and there is gonna be an angry, mean, hungry dog with teeth filed down to razor sharp points and reinforced with titanium on the other side of it. Then I'll say I told you so.