brentoli Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 Dispatched to the interstate on a car through a fence. No airbag. Cosmetic damage to the passenger car. State Police on scene requesting an ambulance due to a minor involved. Driver was 21 year old asian. Passenger was 15 year old asian. Older speaks decent english, younger is still broken english. No obvious injuries to either occupant and they both deny treatment. Vitals are all within normal limits. Talk to the older brother and he states the parents don't speak english and live in another state. How do you obtain an SOR for the juv?
AnthonyM83 Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 Through the older brother translating? We only require them to sign out AMA when we feel patient should needs to go to hospital by ambulance, even if they are minors. She doesn't need to refuse transport, b/c we're not offering it, really (not that we'd deny it, though).
JCicco345 Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 Either get the parents on the phone and have someone translate, contact medical control and explain the situation to the doc. Or you are stuck transporting and you can thank the cop. Minors cannot refuse and the brother has no right to refuse on her behalf, she is defined as a patient because you were sent there to evaluate her. Hospitals around here are close enough I just transport people in these situations because it is the quickest option, unless they vehemently refuse then i'll make 1 phone call to the parents and if that doesn't work they get a ride.
katbemeEMT-B Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 We had an accident like this recently although everyone spoke English. The minor involved remained in our care on scene until the parent arrived to sign her. Yes it took up our time but we had no choice as she had stepped into our rig to be assessed. Once we accepted the responsibility to assess her she became our patient. She did not want to be transported so we had to stay there until her mom showed up. We called mom and that was her wish.
Dustdevil Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 How do you obtain an SOR for the juv? Minus 5 for unapproved abbreviation. I have no idea what this means.
brentoli Posted May 28, 2007 Author Posted May 28, 2007 Sorry. Signature of Release. Make it -10. I should know better.
Dustdevil Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 Ah, thanks for the clarification. Are you absolutely positive that your system requires you to get "refusal" from persons who are not patients? No injury or illness = no patient in most systems. Of course, Khanek raises a good point, in that once you decide they are worthy of a medical evaluation, you have turned them into a patient whether they are injured or not. The moral of the story is, if they say they are okay, take their word for it and drive away! Of course, the Trooper throws a monkey wrench into this scenario by calling you out in the first place. It may cause somebody in your organisation to question how you could clear with "non injuries" when a Trooper called you out reporting injuries. As in society in general, cop's word always trump's medics word, despite his total lack of medical training. So anyhow, in this situation, I agree with Anthony that no refusal is necessary.
brentoli Posted May 28, 2007 Author Posted May 28, 2007 Of course, the Trooper throws a monkey wrench into this scenario by calling you out in the first place. It may cause somebody in your organisation to question how you could clear with "non injuries" when a Trooper called you out reporting injuries. Well, in this county. It seems like any accident involving minors PD calls EMS for refusals. I don't know the reasoning behind it. I think they are covering their butt's so they don't tell mommy that little suzy isn't hurt and she needs to be picked up, with mommy going straight to the ER... Calling the Sheriff... Lawsuits... Blah blah blah blah. Then we get out there and have to make parental contact, or transport. Which really sucks with you have a 17 year old, who isn't hurt, you know they aren't hurt, and have to take them to the hospital against their wishes due to the drama queen soccer mom. I mean come on now... 2 veh fender bender that doesn't hit hard enough to trade paint? And yes I explained it to mom. [sup:a0f752b650]SIDENOTE: This is a different accident[/sup:a0f752b650] Back to the matter at hand, I had the brother call the father with the trooper standing there and translate. We took the release with the troop as a witness and went on our way.
AnthonyM83 Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 What would that 17yro be refusing exactly? AMA is usually refusing to transport or refusing treatment. The reason being that we as "medical professionals" believe they need medical tx. If they have no medical problem, what medical treatment or evaluation are you trying to get them to accept? What medical advice are they going against? If a 17yro had a papercut approached you while on shift and asked you for a bandaid and showed you her finger, would you need her to sign out AMA?
Dustdevil Posted May 28, 2007 Posted May 28, 2007 If a 17yro had a papercut approached you while on shift and asked you for a bandaid and showed you her finger, would you need her to sign out AMA? According to many systems and MDs, yes. If you make contact with a PATIENT -- that is, a person with any signs or complaints of illness or injury -- you will either transport or obtain a formal refusal. That is the way it has been in most systems I have worked in the last twenty years.
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