A&E Intervention: Medics can accept refusal from a drunk

[BEorP]

Ok so I had just started watching it so I don't know all of the details but on the A&E show "Intervention" tonight there was one of the subjects who took a bunch of trazodone. Apparently she had also been drinking. The producer called 911 and the medics showed up but said they could not touch her until she gave consent or went unconscious. They actually waited until she went unconscious and then began treatment (and I believe she regained consciousness but then they told her she could not refuse). I do not know what area/state this was in.

I will say again that I am not positive on all of the details, but are there areas that you would actually need to accept a refusal from someone who has been drinking and has taken a bottle of pills in an attempt to end their own life?

[medic429]

I was thinking the same thing tonight...why didn't someone suggest an involuntary commitment? I believe she was from Kansas if anyone can shed light on the law there..

[Dustdevil]

Where were the cops? :?

Why weren't they dispatched, why did EMS make the scene without them, and why weren't they called immediately after sizing up the scene?

This is why it's stupid for EMS to ask for more media attention. It always just ends up making us looks retarded.

[BEorP]

Where were the cops? :?

Why weren't they dispatched, why did EMS make the scene without them, and why weren't they called immediately after sizing up the scene?

This is why it's stupid for EMS to ask for more media attention. It always just ends up making us looks retarded.

I believe there was a cop there as this was happening. There was also the pt's cousin who was trying to get them to help her as they literally stood around. The pt ended up in the ICU and on a vent I think it said on the show. Wonder if it would have gone any differently if they took her to the hospital when she was conscious.

[Dustdevil]

Okay, apparently this made both us and the cops look stupid. :?

Most anyplace I am aware of (allowing for regional differences), we are unable to accept a refusal from somebody who is impaired AND authorised to treat/transport somebody who has made a suicidal gesture. The cop also has the authority to effect this. I don't know if these guys froze up in front of the cameras or what, but I would have to say they were wrong on all counts. The old "until they lose consciousness" rule does not apply to suicidals.

As for whether or not more prompt treatment would have helped, that depends upon how long before they arrived she took them in the first place. It might have been long enough that significant absorption had already taken place. Probably not, though. And lavage could have prevented a large amount of the absorption, reducing the severity of the effects.

[Scaramedic]

Ok my wife TIVO'd this and I re-watched it and I caught a couple of things...

#1. This is podunk Kansas as far as I can tell. The crew that was refusing treatment was the first responders, they had the really cool "Fire-Rescue" jackets from Galls. :roll: The transport crew showed up from AMR and were the ones that actually packaged and transported the patient. So here is my guess, what the producers of the show called "Paramedics" were volunteer Firefighters from the local VFD. They were obviously unsure how to proceed since she is telling them to leave her alone, compound the stress with TV cameras and they vapor-locked.

#2. Lets be honest most LEO's look to us to decide whether or not a patient is medically unable to make their own decisions. So when the Mooseknuckle, Kansas PD shows up with TV cameras rolling and indecisive volunteers on scene they are going to assume the same "thumb in ass" posture the FD did.

#3. If you notice once AMR shows up the patient is packaged and treated, yet she is still conscious. I think the whole "unconscious" symptom was added for drama and to make up for the dumbass FD & PD initial statements.

Peace,

Marty

P.S. Am I the only one who found the subject of this intervention a spoiled brat? I have watched this show before and actually hoped the people would do well and get their lifes back. Not this one, I found myself not giving a damn about this women. I just love the fact that her family and her kept talking about how rich she was yet at the end of the show it said she is running out of money. Whats wrong princess $10,000 limo rides draining your divorce settlement?

[StickEm]

I don't think the podunk KS VFD guys knew what they were OBLIGATED to do in that instance, and therefor, they chose to do nothing until she lost consciousness. They put their county's nuts on the block by sitting by until she dropped.

Here in GA, you are required by protocols and standing orders to bring them in if they are impaired from drugs or ETOH. By "bring them in", I mean call SO or local PD on scene and tell them to take the pt. into custody. We do it all the time. The COPD ladt who drank too much and is audibly wheezing and looks blue "refuses" Tx, and we're supposed to let her die? Nope. We call PD or SO and ask them to help.

PD in that episode is supposed to get her onto the stretcher, and let you restrain her and then they SHOULD send a deputy to ride along into the ER. That deputy SHOULD babysit until the hospital psych administrator or at least the medical control Dr. signs off on said pt.

Anything resembling the contrary constitutes pt. abandonment.

HUGE LIABILTY.

[Dustdevil]

Was she hott?

[Chief1C]

Was she hott?

Not quite. Sorry for the poor quality, I took it with my photosmart digital camera. My arms got tired, so it bounced around. If it was something important, I would have used the tripod. :wink: Anyway, she took a quantity of Trazodone, while obviously having ETOH on board... It would have been more dramatic if she took the pills with a glass of booze, yet she takes them with Apple Juice. :roll: You can guess what happens, afterward.

[AnatomyChick]

Very interesting..thanks for posting the video.... I am uncertain of KS law on providing care vs. consent, but now I'm interested enough to find out. I have a cousin who is an new EMT-I in KS.... think I'll give her a jingle.