A&E Intervention: Medics can accept refusal from a drunk

[Dustdevil]

Ohhhhh...That sounded harsh, sorry about that. You get the jist.

I do get the gist, and I respect where you are coming from. But I think your math is all wrong on this one.

How many runs you make a year has nothing to do with working 24 hour shifts. A man who works 8 or 12 hour shifts, but with the same number of hours per week as you, can run just as many calls as you without having to compromise his physical and mental health, as well as being more alert and prepared to deal with his patients in a more quality assured manner. Staying up all night long without any sleep doesn't make you a better medic, nor does it make you any busier than the next medic. It just means that your employer is knowingly, intentionally, and willingly wearing your arse out so that you won't be able to stay with him long enough to collect retirement.

That makes you the sucker for bending over and taking it.

I didn't mean for that to sound harsh either, but we've all been that sucker.

[Niftymedi911]

Dust I cannot thank you enough for posting in that short, brief paragraph what my 8000 word response would of been.

You have to think beyond the words here. Dust got what I was trying to say. I don't mind bueing busy at all, if fact I love being busy it makes the day go by fasterand I get better calls . What I don't like is an administration that as Dust put it knowingly and willingly put you, your partner and your patient at risk. Think all the way back to EMT schol, whats the most important priority when it comes to running a truck or call? Your safety!!!!! Even though I'm in the ripe young age of 20, I'm not nucking stupid ok? Some young adults this day in age, actually have a brain on top of that neck.

So next time you fly off the handle with a response like that. Stop and think for a moment......

Oh by the way, it takes on average 1 hour to 2 hours depending on how long we have to wait to offload our patient at the ER. Any hospital we have to go to theres always an offload wait with 4 trucks in line. I've waited 4 1/2 hrs to offload one day.

The other 19 hours I'm in station, I read, surf the net, strip and clean the unit, study, sleep, watch TV, lift weights, clean the station, oh yea the most important EAT!!! .

[Dustdevil]

The other 19 hours I'm in station, I read, surf the net, strip and clean the unit...

You wash your ambulance in the nude? :shock:

[JPINFV]

^

That's a visual I didn't need.

[whit72]

Umm..I never stated working twenty four hour shift made you a better medic. I stated it didn't make you a worse provider. Some one insinuated it did.

I make more annually then a forty-hour guy, more vacation time, no weekends, five days off a week, better tax deductions, on duty con-ed and training. Options for more overtime. Yeah there really sticking it to me. Id better smart'en up.

I believed I apologized to you Niftey. Don't get you undies in a bunch.

[1EMT-P]

If a patient is under the influence of alcohol or drugs he or she is unable to make informed decisions including signing refusals.

[Dustdevil]

Umm..I never stated working twenty four hour shift made you a better medic. I stated it didn't make you a worse provider. Some one insinuated it did.

Multiple studies prove that it does greatly increase the potential for medical mistakes. This is not a scientifically debatable point, no matter how good you think you are.

I make more annually then a forty-hour guy, more vacation time, no weekends, five days off a week, better tax deductions, on duty con-ed and training. Options for more overtime. Yeah there really sticking it to me. Id better smart'en up.

Yes, you should. Because you are not making more than the 48 to 60 hour guy who work's 12 hour shifts, has predictable, regular days off (including three in a row every week), and never has to work when he should be sleeping. He's getting everything you get and more. He's getting a better deal, and more importantly, so is the patient. And that 12 hour guy is more likely to stick it out for 25 years and retire than you are too.

Yes, you should smarten up. But your employer hopes you won't.

[medic001918]

If a patient is under the influence of alcohol or drugs he or she is unable to make informed decisions including signing refusals.

So anyone that's had a couple of drinks can't refuse your services? It's not really as clear cut as you try to make it seem. The presence of alcohol doesn't render someone in capable of making informed decisions. There's a difference between being incapacitated or unstable due to alcohol, and someone that's had a few drinks.

Shane

NREMT-P

[Niftymedi911]

In FL, like what was said. Just because you've had a couple of drinks during the day deosn't render you to an involuntary consent relam. It states that if the pt cannot answer questions appropriately or is giving you the impression that he/she cannot make the sound medical decisions for themselves, you have the right to transport on involuntary consent.

Now, if the pt's aaox3 and can follow simple comands and refusing transport even though he's had a couple to drink, I'm going to have them sign for himself.

Dust, you don't want to know......

[reaper]

Actually in FL, only a LEO can initiate a involuntary transport. But, most LEO's will take EMS's word that the pt needs to be treated.