Woman dies in ER lobby as 911 refuses to help

[katbemeEMT-B]

Yup definite breakdown in communication, the way I see it you had an MVA with no patients as they were no longer on scene.

Similiar to how it was stated in PCR. We then stated that the scene had moved a half mile down the road (address stated) where the accident victims were being assessed by the deputy sheriff. Also notations were made on misdirection which delayed patient care.

[Lone Star]

Slightly different scenario, but still to the point of this whole thing:

I was called to the private residence of a 68 YOM (year old male) who was unresponsive. On scene, I determined the guy was in a diabetic emergency. Since we were only transporting 3-5 minutes tops (priority 1[code 3]), there was no time for ALS intervention. Strictly P.U.H.A. (Pick Up, Haul Ass) When I notified the dispatcher that we were transporting priority 1, I was questioned on the 'grounds' of why I chose to transport in this manner. I don't know about you, but I dont have time in this type of situation to debate the findings with an untrained dispatcher over the air, patient care trumps all that!

On clearing from that call, I went back to the main station, and filed a formal complaint agianst said dispatcher. How can she make a determination of transport priority when first of all, she's not even trained as an EMT, and second, she's not on my scene?

[stcommodore]

Are you ALS or BLS? If your speaking at a BLS level and are sitting 3-5min from an ED and the ED is the closest ALS then thats fine. But if your ALS and decided not to fix something you could have on scene, then thats simply crap.

Back on topic....Do we know how busy the ED was at the hospital at the time? I've been at the ED many of times where there are really no beds and to be putting patients in the hall is overstretching the nurses and staff and is just a damn bad idea. If there really was no room for this patient, then until she presented as critical they probaby were doing the right thing.

On the 911/EMTALA/EMS end...No EMS should have been sent to the ED, nor should it ever. Plenty of calls for EMS could and in places do not recieve an ambulance. Other places have EMS, and EMS deems that no transport is needed and refuse calls. In the future its not hard to see EMS also going, treating and not transporting minor cases. Thesse situations are the future of EMS. EMTALA states that a patient presenting to the ED in the way this patient did would create a violation for EMS to take her to another facility. To step out of the ED and stand outside to be transported is just as bad. If your really well enough to call, stand outside and get on another ambulance then your not sick enough.

911 is the biggest social experiment by the goverment to ever work. People call because they get bad service at taco bell, because there is a scary black man wandering around in the burbs, or because they need someone to cook them dinner. All for plenty of reasons that emergency serives should not be activated But america is generally dumb and any attempt so far to educate them when not to call really doesn't work.

[Scaramedic]

King/Harbor has the 2nd busiest trauma center in the country and their ER sees around 200 cases a day. Lets say that they decide to close the hospital. Then what? Where are all these people going to go for treatment? Find the next closest hopsital and turn it into the next King/Harbor?

Ummm, how about going back to Mexico? That's probably where 175 of those 200 cases a day came from. :wink:

Paz,

Mario

Edit: I can't spell for crap today!!

[JPINFV]

King/Harbor has the 2nd busiest trauma center in the country and their ER sees around 200 cases a day. Lets say that they decide to close the hospital. Then what? Where are all these people going to go for treatment? Find the next closest hopsital and turn it into the next King/Harbor?

King/Drew/Harbor's piss poor care has to do with piss poor management than piss poor funding (which it is very well funded) or too many patients.

Besides that I agree with Scara.

Want to know how to deport all the illegal immigrants?

[spoil:797b1a343d]One person at a time and their children go with them. We still put criminals in jail if they have kids, so why should these criminals be any different?[/spoil:797b1a343d]

[Dustdevil]

People call because they get bad service at taco bell, because there is a scary black man wandering around in the burbs, or because they need someone to cook them dinner. All for plenty of reasons that emergency serives should not be activated But america is generally dumb and any attempt so far to educate them when not to call really doesn't work.

Apples and oranges.

This caller very clearly called reporting a medical emergency. There was nothing unclear about it. Bottom line is, if somebody in your service area requests EMS (emphasis on the E and the M), you go. It is completely unacceptable for call-takers to make uninformed decisions on who gets it and who does not. I don't give a rat's arse about how everybody else does it, or how it's always been done. That ignorant mantra is no more valid than the old, "we ALWAYS give 15lpm, b/l 14ga and MAST pants." Times change. Shit happens, and hopefully we learn from our mistakes. This was a BIG mistake, and I have to seriously question the judgement of anybody who doesn't learn from it. I don't care whose posterior gets left dangling in the wind. And I don't care about EMTALA. None of those trump your professional duty to act duty to act. Anything less is wrong. Period. It's killing our image and it's killing people.

LA County is just damn lucky that the plaintiff's attorney doesn't know more about the system. Otherwise, he'd pile papers on their arses too. And win handily. I don't care if the county got Bryan Bledsoe, Adams Cowley, and Perry Mason all on the stand for them, there simply is no way to defend this policy.

[katbemeEMT-B]

Besides that I agree with Scara.

Want to know how to deport all the illegal immigrants?

[spoil:9319d09513]One person at a time and their children go with them. We still put criminals in jail if they have kids, so why should these criminals be any different?[/spoil:9319d09513]

:hello1: :wav: :hello1: :usa2: