KC EMS To Deploy Tactical Medics

[Dustdevil]

Specially trained paramedics will join KC police in tactical situations

By JOHN SHULTZ

The Kansas City Star

Specially-trained MAST paramedics will soon be riding into the thick

of dangerous situations with Kansas City police tactical teams, the

police department and ambulance officials announced Wednesday.

The tactical medics — trained by police in, among other things,

movement under fire — will roll with police officers in the

department's armored vehicles to the front lines of tactical

operations.

Those operations can run the gamut from stand-offs with barricaded

parties to scenarios like April's Ward Parkway Shopping Center

shooting.

"It's something we've needed to do for a long time," said Sgt. Joe

McHale, commander of one of the police department's tactical

teams. "It's certainly not a new concept. The idea was designed by

the Army during World War II."

Having MAST personnel on the front lines of an operation will cut

down the time it takes police to get medical attention for an injured

party, McHale said. Currently, MAST crews already work tactical

operations, but they're stationed at a secure command post several

blocks and many minutes away.

"This increases our ability to treat casualties in a situation that's

unstable," McHale said.

One MAST medic, Erik Carlsen, received about 60 hours of police

tactical training and has been serving as a one-man pilot project for

seven months. He was able to enter Ward Parkway mere minutes after

officers stopped shooter David Logsdon.

Police and MAST hope to have eight tactical medics — one for each of

the city's tactical squads plus two additional alternates — in place

by mid-August. The selection process starts with an obstacle course

run today, with training to commence in July.

Candidates have to pass a police background check and have three

years of MAST experience and a clean personnel record with the

ambulance service. They'll be outfitted similarly to police with body

armor and other equipment, and they will have to undergo continuing

training.

"We think they'll be MAST's most capable and qualified medics,"

McHale said.

[somedic]

Oh Dust did you have to?.....This walking, talking "one man pilot project" killing machine/medic Erik Carlsen must be one more bad ass. Why dont they just send him to the sand box for nocturnally emissive gun fights with all the bad guys over there?

My real hope is that these latest tactical medic bad asses really train as hard as they may have to fight because if they dont then they become another bunch of tactical wacker groupies that endanger themselves, patients and the real swat cops.

Minus 10 points to the PD and MAST for allowing a tactical medic"s name to be published all across the country...GREAT security guys he is already a target and hasnt got to kill anyone himself yet!!

Somedic sends.

[Michael]

[chbare]

From a stance of cost effectiveness, team cohesiveness, OPSEC, and overall survivability/effectiveness, would it not be easier to give the officers 60 hours of relevant tactical medical training? Then, the entire force is on the same page and all of the officers are able to provide front line interventions. I am not sure that a paramedic level provider will do much to the outcome of a violent incident. I am not sure that it really takes a paramedic to pull a wounded officer behind a car and return fire. (Honestly, the officer is better equipped to provide this level of care.) I cannot see any tactical medic intubating, pushing meds, and pacing until the threat is secured. This is not a blow to paramedics. However, I do not see ALS care taking a primary role in tactical operations until the scene is somewhat secure. Most of the interventions will be law enforcement based and BLS in nature until the scene is more secure. Please correct me if my thinking is incorrect.

Take care,

chbare.

[somedic]

Chhbare: You are exactly right. If any tactical team is serious about operating at all they would provide every officer training in Tactical Combat Casualty Care (TC3) and the basics like bleeding control, NPA placement, chest seals,etc. As a Tactical medic for a Swat team (civilian side) and two recent back to back deployments in the military to support small unit operations I can tell you that Ive never had to practice at the Parmedic level.

A good combat life saver class or a tactical first responder type course should be required for every Swat cop. Real EMS can always be staged in a more secure area.

This is not a new argument here at the city. There will be those who disagree on this form of thinking but real world experience make one wise.

Somedic Sends

[chbare]

Somedic, I agree and I am gland that I am not the only one with this view. It seems that the whole TOMS/TEMS concept has exploded into a full blown trend (The purple shirts are in kind of trend.) over the last few years.

Take care,

chbare.

[asrnj77]

Oh Dust did you have to?.....This walking, talking "one man pilot project" killing machine/medic Erik Carlsen must be one more bad ass. Why dont they just send him to the sand box for nocturnally emissive gun fights with all the bad guys over there?

My real hope is that these latest tactical medic bad asses really train as hard as they may have to fight because if they dont then they become another bunch of tactical wacker groupies that endanger themselves, patients and the real swat cops.

Minus 10 points to the PD and MAST for allowing a tactical medic"s name to be published all across the country...GREAT security guys he is already a target and hasnt got to kill anyone himself yet!!

Somedic sends.

Not sure why you think he needs the intense OPSEC...they also printed the name of his supervisor. SWAT team members are not undercover detectives (usually) so having their names in the paper probably isn't giving away much. Other than now the local hoodlums will pop the trunk of his crown vic in the driveway and take his AR, MP5, body armor and 50 mags

I also saw that you said you don't see a paramedic doing ALS duties until the scene is secured. Well I believe that is the point of the tactical medic. They get some training in team movement, safety, and accept the risk of working in a hostile environment. What about the active shooter scenario - You have 1 maybe more shooters in a public school (guess it could be private too and the team moves in - Officers prepare to move into a classroom and one officer takes a groin shot possibly nicking the femoral. Could another member apply a tq or pressure? Yes, but now you have one guy wounded and 1 or more (shooting team members) treating him. If you have a dedicated team medic - they can provide care while the members address the problem at hand - the shooter.

A lot of SWAT team medics spend them time addressing non-traumatic injuries like training injuries, dehydration, jock itch, and checking vitals before PT drills. Of course you could have a civilian medic doing this but the "team medic" or the dedicated "tactical medic" develops a bond between themselves and the team. Trust plays a big role and if they feel that you have taken the initiative to learn some tactical training it may further the team as a whole.

[asrnj77]

Oh Dust did you have to?.....This walking, talking "one man pilot project" killing machine/medic Erik Carlsen must be one more bad ass. Why dont they just send him to the sand box for nocturnally emissive gun fights with all the bad guys over there?

My real hope is that these latest tactical medic bad asses really train as hard as they may have to fight because if they dont then they become another bunch of tactical wacker groupies that endanger themselves, patients and the real swat cops.

Minus 10 points to the PD and MAST for allowing a tactical medic"s name to be published all across the country...GREAT security guys he is already a target and hasnt got to kill anyone himself yet!!

Somedic sends.

Not sure why you think he needs the intense OPSEC...they also printed the name of his supervisor. SWAT team members are not undercover detectives (usually) so having their names in the paper probably isn't giving away much. Other than now the local hoodlums will pop the trunk of his crown vic in the driveway and take his AR, MP5, body armor and 50 mags

I also saw that you said you don't see a paramedic doing ALS duties until the scene is secured. Well I believe that is the point of the tactical medic. They get some training in team movement, safety, and accept the risk of working in a hostile environment. What about the active shooter scenario - You have 1 maybe more shooters in a public school (guess it could be private too and the team moves in - Officers prepare to move into a classroom and one officer takes a groin shot possibly nicking the femoral. Could another member apply a tq or pressure? Yes, but now you have one guy wounded and 1 or more (shooting team members) treating him. If you have a dedicated team medic - they can provide care while the members address the problem at hand - the shooter.

A lot of SWAT team medics spend them time addressing non-traumatic injuries like training injuries, dehydration, jock itch, and checking vitals before PT drills. Of course you could have a civilian medic doing this but the "team medic" or the dedicated "tactical medic" develops a bond between themselves and the team. Trust plays a big role and if they feel that you have taken the initiative to learn some tactical training it may further the team as a whole.

[Canadian Caesar]

Not sure he has to be a ONE MAN KILLING TEAM.

The point, as far as I gathered from the article, is that a medic with tactical training is able to enter a scene SOONER than a Medic stationed at the command post blocks away.

"He was able to enter Ward Parkway mere minutes after

officers stopped shooter David Logsdon. "

The article itself said that the medic was able to enter the mall SOON AFTER the situation was resolved, NOT that he entered the mall and handled patients while the police were having a shootout over his head.

:roll:

The point of the tactical medic conveyed by this particular article is that they can enter the scene sooner that if you had to wait for regular medics to enter before the scene is completely cleared by SWAT. A tactical medic by virtue of training is theoretically able to enter the scene with a greater degree of safety while SWAT is still operating. And they can be cleared of all the red tape that normally requires a non-tactical medic to be stationed a significant distance out of the "danger-zone". Danger zone does not neccesarily mean he was with the entry team, it could mean that he was stationed outside the building, but still inside the perimiter.

Now why somedic has to turn this guy into the Terminator for no good reason is beyond me... Honestly...

[Just Plain Ruff]

I know this medic in question at MAST although it's been ages since I've seen him or talked to him and I'd be hardpressed to say he'd remember me but my experiences is that he's one of or darn near close one of the best medics Mast has.

I've met many medics across the country and would hazard to say that he'd be in the top 20 or so.

He was actually one of my FTO's when I worked at Mast for my short tenure.

I think the KC MO PD is in quite good hands.