KC EMS To Deploy Tactical Medics

[somedic]

Assrnj77: Do you even know what OPSEC means? Any professional soldier/cop/tactical medic avoids public attention for more than one reason. Why arent you applying your vast tactical medic knowlege in the GWOT?

You made it obvious that you watched BlackHawk Down. Your little "active shooter" scenario sounds unoriginal. If you understood TC3 (tactical combat casualty care, you'd realize that fire superiority takes priority over a groin wound. A medic will need to be a shooter first in this dynamic situation. Holding pressure makes little sense in your scenario even though it may be detrimental to the injured cop . If a tourniquet was required, you could apply it and leave the casualty behind as you continued your part of the mission...It takes little time to apply a tourniquet.

Again, SWAT cops need to be Tactical first responders as well as what their normal team assignments are.

Somedic Sends

[Redcell19512]

Our county is in the process of building a "SWAT team" and we've already been unofficially asked to provide them with "tactical medics". Now, there's been no discussion of what role our medics would be playing or how much training would be required. To do it right I'm sure there would be A LOT of time spent in training which leads me to the end point of the discussion. We have a manpower shortage right now on a day to day basis. Some days we have trouble putting four ambulances on the street to take little old ladies with chest pain to the ER. There is no way we would be able to pull two medics from our normal rotation to do "swat duty" on a regular basis. What happens if the "tactical medic" is working on an EMS rig and there's a Swat call out? Am I supposed to put one of my ambulances out of service so my medic can travel to the other end of the county to an area that isn't mine to cover?

Somedic's position makes sense to me and since he seems to be a 'been there, done that' kinda guy I'd be inclined to listen to him. But that's just me. Train the police to deal with BLS level trauma care. Have a MICU standing by at a reasonable distance away.

[Doczilla]

I have to respectfully disagree with Dust and SoMedic here, though I have a profound regard for their knowledge and experience in this area.

The officers I have worked with have been patently uncomfortable with providing medical care. Its a paradigm shift which they don't seem prepared to make. There is 1 emt and 1 paramedic among the officers, but they are officers first. They seem to be far more comfortable when one of the docs is there.

The vast majority of what I do as a SWAT medic is not trauma care, but symptomatic management, injury and disease prevention, and evaluating and treating injuries and illnesses other than those sustained in the stack. The medic is the "medical conscience" of the team, and I frequently provide input on work/rest cycles, hydration, nutrition, etc. I help them figure out work or training restrictions for the SWAT members who have injuries and illnesses. I often review medical care provided by another physician, particularly when relevant to injuries that impact mission readiness. I'm more approachable than their doc in a white coat, and can advise them about specialists to see and make relevant phone calls to arrange follow-up visits. I have never had to provide trauma care in the zone, but have had to listen to lung sounds of plenty of chuckleheads complaining of asthma after the flash-bang goes off and cuffs go on. I do "sick call" kind of stuff, and provide medical evaluation and management on minor illnesses, rashes, and injuries. And I'm the one that remembers to bring the big cooler full of ice and water bottles.

This is the uncommon image of the tactical medic, but is far more accurate. Paramedic school did absolutely nothing to prepare me for it. And no amount of training for the officers would prepare them for it.

'zilla

[Dustdevil]

I have to respectfully disagree with Dust and SoMedic here...

How did I get dragged into this?

All I did was post an article. :?

And, of course, minus 5 to asrnj77 for double posting. :wink:

[BushyFromOz]

You didn't need to say it, just had to think it

-5 for not batting your eyelids while sounding sheepish

[Doczilla]

How did I get dragged into this?

All I did was post an article. :?

Thought you wanted to get into the ruckus. Gettin' soft in your old age? :wink:

'zilla

[Dustdevil]

Thought you wanted to get into the ruckus. Gettin' soft in your old age? :wink:

Nah... my problem with TEMS is pretty much the same as my problem with EMS in general.

I'm not really against the concept itself. I am against the whacker stereotype that is unfortunately propagated by the popular hype.

Kinda like Hispanics. Just cuz I don't like most of them doesn't mean I wouldn't still marry one.

[asrnj77]

Assrnj77: Do you even know what OPSEC means? Any professional soldier/cop/tactical medic avoids public attention for more than one reason. Why arent you applying your vast tactical medic knowlege in the GWOT?

You made it obvious that you watched BlackHawk Down. Your little "active shooter" scenario sounds unoriginal. If you understood TC3 (tactical combat casualty care, you'd realize that fire superiority takes priority over a groin wound. A medic will need to be a shooter first in this dynamic situation. Holding pressure makes little sense in your scenario even though it may be detrimental to the injured cop . If a tourniquet was required, you could apply it and leave the casualty behind as you continued your part of the mission...It takes little time to apply a tourniquet.

Again, SWAT cops need to be Tactical first responders as well as what their normal team assignments are.

Somedic Sends

unoriginal is my whole point - this stuff happens

First of all I thought your OPSEC (perhaps PERSEC would be better) would get a kick out of this :

http://www.aetv.com/dallas_swat/dswat_meet_teams.jsp

Second of all, in addition to running active shooter drills (thankfully haven't had a real one) I have taken TC3, CMAST, and the other cool acronym courses and what applies for the military in Iraq is not the same as what American SWAT teams are doing. As Doczilla said the majority of care is preventative and dealing with minor injuries. But if a situation does arise the same medic can handle a situation under duress. The "tactical" medic also gets training in dealing with less lethal devices like bean bags, tasers, CS and pepper spray. They are able to treat prisoners and police and may have additional protocols (like Maryland) that allow them to work with more flexibility than a civilian medic. Do I think that everybody wants tactical medic because it's kewl to be a "ninja"? Yes...but I also think that there is a real use for them and in my opinion, if they saved just one cop's life then it was worth all the arguing and fussing

(with the double posting - yeah that sucks but for some reason EMTCITY was acting funny on my computer)

[somedic]

Asrnj77: Thanks for posting the "all star line up" of SWAT cops. I think its great that every cop killer that surfs the internet can see what they are up against. OPSEC/PERSEC is just something that has been beaten in my head by my unit over the years.

I see the PR and political benefits to putting the SWAT team out in public but I will never think that is it wise to do so.

As a civilian "tactical medic" and as a military medic with trigger time since 2001 on multiple deployments, I will always agree with you that a team medic is needed for certain things like what Doczilla was posting about.

I know real well that whats going on in GWOT and whats going on here with SWAT teams are very different, but where else can you as a "tactical medic"nightly, clear houses, buildings, warehouses, caves, farms, etc? Where can you nightly face suicide vest wearing insurgents, RPGs, IEDs, hostages, innocents, bystanders, and your own countrymen at times? Where can you ride into all of this on helicopters, pick up trucks, humvees, strykers, and vans? You are right about the differences but those of us in units that conduct these types of missions have the advantage of gaining this experience and know what it is like to feel all the survival chemicals surge in your body.

TC3 (Tactical Combat Casualty Care) Here I go again! was developed for several reasons. One guy from our unit was on the committee and he was my mentor when I got selected to our unit. Their work is important and should be incorporated into civilian TEMS as much as possible to keep "tactical medics" from making the wrong intervention at the wrong time or the right intervention at the wrong time.

I respect your views.

Dustdevil: I hate tactical whackers more than you.......

Doczilla: You are performing in a way I would expect you to perform for your team. I see your team's discomfort in handling medical problems as something that may be a big problem for you later on...I hope not though. I still maintain that SWAT cops need to be able to provide first responder care and make that a part of their team common task training.

Somedic sends