Driving with "Due Regard" for others

[katbemeEMT-B]

This article appeared in a local paper. We've talked many times about "racing to the scene" or "hauling ass". This is why we don't drive like idiots. The three victims in the car are friends of my stepdaughter. I've made some of my own notes in red.

http://www.faribault.com/main.asp?SectionI...articleID=36598

Ambulance strikes car; five hurt

Faribault resident remains in serious condition

By Thomas E. Hammell

thammell@faribault.com

FARIBAULT - Five people were injured, two of them seriously, in a car-ambulance accident Saturday.

At 10:39 p.m., a North Memorial ambulance driven by Nathaniel Hanson, 24, Faribault, was traveling northbound on Eighth Avenue Northwest with lights and sirens on en route to a Northfield call, according to information from the Faribault Police Department.

The vehicle entered the intersection of Seventh Street Northwest without stopping, striking a Chevrolet Malibu driven by Thomas Vogel, 19, Faribault, according to the police.

The passenger in the ambulance, Kelly Zellnar, 26, was injured, according to the information.

The passengers of the car, Justin Horton, 20, Faribault, and Stacy Ernste, 19, Faribault were also injured, according to police information.

Horton was taken to North Memorial Hospital, where he remains in serious condition, a hospital representative said.

Ernste was treated in the District One Emergency room and then taken to North Memorial Hospital in Robbinsdale, a District One representative said. She was discharged Monday, a hospital representative said.

Vogel, Zellnar and Hanson were treated at District One Hospital and released.

Pat Coyne, director of outstate operations for North Memorial Ambulance, said the company is investigating the crash with law enforcement. He said the company has an extensive driver training program and training every other year but the environment they are driving in can be dangerous.

"We do enter uncontrolled intersections with our lights and sirens on," he said, but car drivers may not see or hear them. Last time I checked, an intersection with a stop sign from the north and one from the south constitutes a controlled intersection. The ambulance driver blew the stop sign at a blind intersection for the cross traffic that doesn't have to stop.Ambulance drivers need to make sure the intersection is clear before entering, he said.

"It doesn't do anybody any good if we don't get to the scene because of the accident like that," he said.

In this case, the crew assisted until help arrived.

Faribault Police Chief Mike Lewis said the drivers drive a lot of miles under emergency situations.

"For the amount of miles that they drive, I think this is certainly kind of a rarity," he said. He did not just say that! They shouldn't be happening regardless of how many miles you log.

- Staff writer Thomas E. Hammell may be reached at 333-3128.

[JPINFV]

This article appeared in a local paper. We've talked many times about "racing to the scene" or "hauling ass". This is why we don't drive like idiots. The three victims in the car are friends of my stepdaughter. I've made some of my own notes in red.

Unfortunately, too much of the population drive like assholes in their POV under normal conditions. This population, due to size alone, has a fair chance to see a few members behind the wheel of an ambulance.

/me uses turn signals, even when driving with l/s

[skibum]

Unfortunately, too much of the population drive like assholes in their POV under normal conditions. This population, due to size alone, has a fair chance to see a few members behind the wheel of an ambulance.

/me uses turn signals, even when driving with l/s

I agree with JPINFV, for me, especially in lower NY I have found that people don't care about anyone else while they are behind the wheel of their POV. Its rare in this part of the state to have someone "wave" you on when you get to 4-way stop at the same time. It seems that everyone is out for themselves and there is no 'second place' so to speak. And as JPINFV said, when there are so many people like that, there will be people that drive the ambulance like that too. [We have a few in my own squad, officers not excluded].

Its tragic, but I witnessed an ambulance accident not too long ago, where the ambulance entered an intersection on a red light (lights but no siren [roughly 0430]) and collided into the side of an F-250. Pt, crew, and driver of the truck (if I'm not mistaken) all had to be transported. The tragic part is, this apparently happens around here that it didn't even warrant a news article.

Just my $.02.

Be safe.

-skibum

[spenac]

CNN Headline news just showed dash cam from an ambulance wreck.

I remember instructors telling us if it's serious to grow rockets on the a** end of the ambulance. I have fought to stop that attitude. I intend to go home after the job and take care of my family. The few minutes difference by slowing down a little are not going to cost a person with a real chance their life. In fact a little slower makes it easier for the medic in back to give better care instead of being thrown around like a rag doll thus probably improving patients likelihood of survival. Just my opinion, I've done no scientific research and I don't care for holiday inn express.

[Richard B the EMT]

Most who know my postings know, second to "Local Protocol", is my other mantra of "balance the need for speed with a ride that's a glide".

Which would you rather have, a patient who died due to delay getting to the hospital, or death and/or injury to yourself and your partner?

One former partner, not an instructor but should have been, told me, take care of yourself first, partner second, vehicle third, and that will result in taking care of the patient.

I think I have posted somewhere else that an ambulance in collision not only takes that ambulance out of service, it takes a minimum of three out. First, the involved vehicle, second, the ambulance responding to the involved vehicle's collision, and the third one is the one responding to the original call. Add to that, firefighters and the LEOs responding to the incident, as well as the supervisors.

An EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Course) instructor adds to this, per my EMT refresher just taken, that an EMS involved incident causes other problems. Everyone on the frequency believing themselves to be close wants to respond, and the EMD won't let them. Everyone else feels ill at ease being unable to help, and it possibly could cause the vehicle operators to be, themselves, distracted, leading to another incident.

Then, of course, there's the financial end of repair or replacement to the involved ambulance. If a Volunteer unit, how will it affect the scheduled purchase of that fancy "all included" ambulance? Any money left for the purchase after the repair? Or, worse, needing the money to purchase an "as is" used ambulance? You got to be available for calls, right?

Back to the EVOC instructor. After an accident, no ambulance rides the same, and the crews won't take the same level of care that they would have with the same unit, fresh out of the box, as it were.

[mailmantech82]

How many calls in all honesty warrant driving that fast and recklessly?

[JPINFV]

How many calls in all honesty warrant driving that fast and recklessly?

Depends on what shows are on TV at the time.

[spenac]

Depends on what shows are on TV at the time.

Or how close to shift end.

But in reality there is no call that warrants driving "recklessly". If we wreck we did nothing but more harm. Always drive like everybody else is an idiot, is drunk or high, and you'll be prepared for and avoid almost all wrecks.

[spenac]

Depends on what shows are on TV at the time.

Or how close to shift end.

But in reality there is no call that warrants driving "recklessly". If we wreck we did nothing but more harm. Always drive like everybody else is an idiot, is drunk or high, and you'll be prepared for and avoid almost all wrecks.

[Cookie]

I have a major problem with people who drive ambulances who think they can run red lights, drive recklessly just because they are behind the wheel in a box with an engine that happens to have lights and sirens. We have a neighboring community where that attitude prevails. I was actually told by one of the people who are on that ambulance service that I needed to pay attention because they have the right of way. They also believe that because they all have whacker lights on their POV's they too have absolute rights to run stop lights, stop signs and drive recklessly.

While Ems, Fire and police are allowed some latitude in running those same said traffic signals, your on your own if you are involved in an accident. Sad to say many have found that out the hard way, and they caused the death or critical injuries that would not have happened if they had driven with "due regard" for others.