A call to arms! EMT-B's defend yourself!

[EMT*Sweet]

I think I have finally read all the responses to this post. I agree with a few and naturally have an issue with a few.

I'm an EMT-IV in one state but only recognized as a Basic in another due to the fact that they wish to remain in the stone ages of EMS care..Not my choice for it to be this way but there are times when I feel like I have my hands tied behind my back while working as a Basic. Aside from my need to state that I see no reason for any Basic to stand up and defend their level of care against those of higher learning.

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question. Now then with the question of two medics being on every truck - I have to ask why it would be necessary. If medics are trained appropriately and have somehow maintained some level of intelligence through the big-headedness so many seem to go through then it should be deemed that it only require one to know the correct method of treatment and the correct dosages of the meds they are pushing in order to treat the signs/symptoms of any patient. If this is the case then what would Medic #2 be doing in the mean time?

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this but this is how I see it. The only alternative to the Basic level is to upgrade and allow them to learn more skills. I think A&P 1&2 should be required classes for any person wishing to join the medical field regardless of what level of care they wish to perform therefore providing the knowledge necessary to enhanced patient care.

[brentoli]

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question.

I am not a medic, and even I take issue to this. A medic is not a medic because of drugs. This has been hashed out way to often for me to explain it, but, wow. I can not believe this far in the discussion I actually read that.

Basic's do not need to start IV's and push medications. Not with out proper education and understanding. I am a basic, not a pompous medic, but this is asinine.

[Ridryder 911]

I'm an EMT-IV in one state but only recognized as a Basic in another due to the fact that they wish to remain in the stone ages of EMS care..Not my choice for it to be this way but there are times when I feel like I have my hands tied behind my back while working as a Basic. Aside from my need to state that I see no reason for any Basic to stand up and defend their level of care against those of higher learning.

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question. Now then with the question of two medics being on every truck - I have to ask why it would be necessary. If medics are trained appropriately and have somehow maintained some level of intelligence through the big-headedness so many seem to go through then it should be deemed that it only require one to know the correct method of treatment and the correct dosages of the meds they are pushing in order to treat the signs/symptoms of any patient. If this is the case then what would Medic #2 be doing in the mean time?

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this but this is how I see it. The only alternative to the Basic level is to upgrade and allow them to learn more skills. I think A&P 1&2 should be required classes for any person wishing to join the medical field regardless of what level of care they wish to perform therefore providing the knowledge necessary to enhanced patient care.

Well, there we go again. Someone again is trying to compare something they yet have not even completed, yet assume they know what the "job" or knowledge base is. This would be like a nurse aide, CMA, etc.. comparing themselves to a RN. All because they have "some similar" descriptions in their role, this definitely does not mean they have the same knowledge.

Just stating that "medics are medics, because of the drugs they push" just illustrated ignorance of the job, the role, and the education required. Again, you can't compare or even evaulate if you are not one.

As well, I do not treat signs and symptoms, you might, but that is what first-aiders do. I perform differential diagnostic examinations, and by obtaining a detailed history and other tests, procedures, I make a field diagnosis. Then afterwards I adminster medical treatment. "Not just push med.'s" as I hope you don't do.

Again, another example of too many alphabet letter EMT attempting to compare or justify themselves to the real thing...

R/r 911

[Ridryder 911]

I'm an EMT-IV in one state but only recognized as a Basic in another due to the fact that they wish to remain in the stone ages of EMS care..Not my choice for it to be this way but there are times when I feel like I have my hands tied behind my back while working as a Basic. Aside from my need to state that I see no reason for any Basic to stand up and defend their level of care against those of higher learning.

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question. Now then with the question of two medics being on every truck - I have to ask why it would be necessary. If medics are trained appropriately and have somehow maintained some level of intelligence through the big-headedness so many seem to go through then it should be deemed that it only require one to know the correct method of treatment and the correct dosages of the meds they are pushing in order to treat the signs/symptoms of any patient. If this is the case then what would Medic #2 be doing in the mean time?

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this but this is how I see it. The only alternative to the Basic level is to upgrade and allow them to learn more skills. I think A&P 1&2 should be required classes for any person wishing to join the medical field regardless of what level of care they wish to perform therefore providing the knowledge necessary to enhanced patient care.

Well, there we go again. Someone again is trying to compare something they yet have not even completed, yet assume they know what the "job" or knowledge base is. This would be like a nurse aide, CMA, etc.. comparing themselves to a RN. All because they have "some similar" descriptions in their role, this definitely does not mean they have the same knowledge.

Just stating that "medics are medics, because of the drugs they push" just illustrated ignorance of the job, the role, and the education required. Again, you can't compare or even evaulate if you are not one.

As well, I do not treat signs and symptoms, you might, but that is what first-aiders do. I perform differential diagnostic examinations, and by obtaining a detailed history and other tests, procedures, I make a field diagnosis. Then afterwards I adminster medical treatment. "Not just push med.'s" as I hope you don't do.

Again, another example of too many alphabet letter EMT attempting to compare or justify themselves to the real thing...

R/r 911

[Ridryder 911]

I'm an EMT-IV in one state but only recognized as a Basic in another due to the fact that they wish to remain in the stone ages of EMS care..Not my choice for it to be this way but there are times when I feel like I have my hands tied behind my back while working as a Basic. Aside from my need to state that I see no reason for any Basic to stand up and defend their level of care against those of higher learning.

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question. Now then with the question of two medics being on every truck - I have to ask why it would be necessary. If medics are trained appropriately and have somehow maintained some level of intelligence through the big-headedness so many seem to go through then it should be deemed that it only require one to know the correct method of treatment and the correct dosages of the meds they are pushing in order to treat the signs/symptoms of any patient. If this is the case then what would Medic #2 be doing in the mean time?

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this but this is how I see it. The only alternative to the Basic level is to upgrade and allow them to learn more skills. I think A&P 1&2 should be required classes for any person wishing to join the medical field regardless of what level of care they wish to perform therefore providing the knowledge necessary to enhanced patient care.

Well, there we go again. Someone again is trying to compare something they yet have not even completed, yet assume they know what the "job" or knowledge base is. This would be like a nurse aide, CMA, etc.. comparing themselves to a RN. All because they have "some similar" descriptions in their role, this definitely does not mean they have the same knowledge.

Just stating that "medics are medics, because of the drugs they push" just illustrated ignorance of the job, the role, and the education required. Again, you can't compare or even evaulate if you are not one.

As well, I do not treat signs and symptoms, you might, but that is what first-aiders do. I perform differential diagnostic examinations, and by obtaining a detailed history and other tests, procedures, I make a field diagnosis. Then afterwards I adminster medical treatment. "Not just push med.'s" as I hope you don't do.

Again, another example of too many alphabet letter EMT attempting to compare or justify themselves to the real thing...

R/r 911

[Ridryder 911]

I'm an EMT-IV in one state but only recognized as a Basic in another due to the fact that they wish to remain in the stone ages of EMS care..Not my choice for it to be this way but there are times when I feel like I have my hands tied behind my back while working as a Basic. Aside from my need to state that I see no reason for any Basic to stand up and defend their level of care against those of higher learning.

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question. Now then with the question of two medics being on every truck - I have to ask why it would be necessary. If medics are trained appropriately and have somehow maintained some level of intelligence through the big-headedness so many seem to go through then it should be deemed that it only require one to know the correct method of treatment and the correct dosages of the meds they are pushing in order to treat the signs/symptoms of any patient. If this is the case then what would Medic #2 be doing in the mean time?

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this but this is how I see it. The only alternative to the Basic level is to upgrade and allow them to learn more skills. I think A&P 1&2 should be required classes for any person wishing to join the medical field regardless of what level of care they wish to perform therefore providing the knowledge necessary to enhanced patient care.

Well, there we go again. Someone again is trying to compare something they yet have not even completed, yet assume they know what the "job" or knowledge base is. This would be like a nurse aide, CMA, etc.. comparing themselves to a RN. All because they have "some similar" descriptions in their role, this definitely does not mean they have the same knowledge.

Just stating that "medics are medics, because of the drugs they push" just illustrated ignorance of the job, the role, and the education required. Again, you can't compare or even evaulate if you are not one.

As well, I do not treat signs and symptoms, you might, but that is what first-aiders do. I perform differential diagnostic examinations, and by obtaining a detailed history and other tests, procedures, I make a field diagnosis. Then afterwards I adminster medical treatment. "Not just push med.'s" as I hope you don't do.

Again, another example of too many alphabet letter EMT attempting to compare or justify themselves to the real thing...

R/r 911

[Ridryder 911]

I'm an EMT-IV in one state but only recognized as a Basic in another due to the fact that they wish to remain in the stone ages of EMS care..Not my choice for it to be this way but there are times when I feel like I have my hands tied behind my back while working as a Basic. Aside from my need to state that I see no reason for any Basic to stand up and defend their level of care against those of higher learning.

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question. Now then with the question of two medics being on every truck - I have to ask why it would be necessary. If medics are trained appropriately and have somehow maintained some level of intelligence through the big-headedness so many seem to go through then it should be deemed that it only require one to know the correct method of treatment and the correct dosages of the meds they are pushing in order to treat the signs/symptoms of any patient. If this is the case then what would Medic #2 be doing in the mean time?

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this but this is how I see it. The only alternative to the Basic level is to upgrade and allow them to learn more skills. I think A&P 1&2 should be required classes for any person wishing to join the medical field regardless of what level of care they wish to perform therefore providing the knowledge necessary to enhanced patient care.

Well, there we go again. Someone again is trying to compare something they yet have not even completed, yet assume they know what the "job" or knowledge base is. This would be like a nurse aide, CMA, etc.. comparing themselves to a RN. All because they have "some similar" descriptions in their role, this definitely does not mean they have the same knowledge.

Just stating that "medics are medics, because of the drugs they push" just illustrated ignorance of the job, the role, and the education required. Again, you can't compare or even evaulate if you are not one.

As well, I do not treat signs and symptoms, you might, but that is what first-aiders do. I perform differential diagnostic examinations, and by obtaining a detailed history and other tests, procedures, I make a field diagnosis. Then afterwards I adminster medical treatment. "Not just push med.'s" as I hope you don't do.

Again, another example of too many alphabet letter EMT attempting to compare or justify themselves to the real thing...

R/r 911

[Ridryder 911]

Wow! Post one and you get 4 ! Still bugs in the system....

R/r 911

[brentoli]

Wow... Rid, felt strongly about that one didcha?

[JPINFV]

I think I have finally read all the responses to this post. I agree with a few and naturally have an issue with a few.

I'm an EMT-IV in one state but only recognized as a Basic in another due to the fact that they wish to remain in the stone ages of EMS care..Not my choice for it to be this way but there are times when I feel like I have my hands tied behind my back while working as a Basic. Aside from my need to state that I see no reason for any Basic to stand up and defend their level of care against those of higher learning.

Just wondering, how long is the class for the EMT-IV? How is not having a different level for every skill, drug, and assessment being in the stone age? Finally, your last sentence in this paragraph, can you defend the level of care provided by basics to a basic that does have higher learning?

Medics are medics only due to the drugs they can push. The rest of patient care is the same. Sizing up a scene, patient assessment, Sample, splinting, bleed control, baseline vitals (so a medic can read a 12 lead) all from medical to trauma. I do feel all Basics should be upgraded in their skills to be able to apply the use of D50, IV's--NS and LR, epi, nitro etc. Basics are just as valuable to this field as any of the higher trained individuals in question.

How much education are you willing to require of basics to use epi, D-50, nitro, and start an IV? Is 120 hours enough? How many basics can even explain what those drugs do in the body, including, for example, how your body uses glucose (they should know this to justify giving oxygen, to be honest. Glucose and oxygen are used in the same overall process, cellular respiration)?

Now then with the question of two medics being on every truck - I have to ask why it would be necessary. If medics are trained appropriately and have somehow maintained some level of intelligence through the big-headedness so many seem to go through then it should be deemed that it only require one to know the correct method of treatment and the correct dosages of the meds they are pushing in order to treat the signs/symptoms of any patient. If this is the case then what would Medic #2 be doing in the mean time?

You've never just flat out missed something? Besides, as the saying goes, shit happens. Sometimes one person just can't hit that vein while the partner can. Dual coverage has its uses, as well as allowing advanced skills to be performed at the same time by providers educated in the what, when, how, where, and why of their interventions.

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this but this is how I see it.

This is a discussion board. If disagreeing is 'being slammed,' than you've come to the wrong place. If I wanted to discuss something where I knew that the other person would agree with me 100% of the time, than I would try talking to a mirror instead of a computer screen showing a discussion board.

The only alternative to the Basic level is to upgrade and allow them to learn more skills. I think A&P 1&2 should be required classes for any person wishing to join the medical field regardless of what level of care they wish to perform therefore providing the knowledge necessary to enhanced patient care.

[ignoring the skills v education debate, and opening this up to everyone]

Why shouldn't A/P be included as a part of the course for paramedic school? I've always found it kinda of funny that medicine [MD/DO] seems to be the only health care field that doesn't require a long line of specific courses [year of bio, general chem, O-Chem, physics, and math generally] to take prior to starting and instead elects to teach the major classes themselves.