How Would More Education Make You A Better Medic?

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

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[kristo]

That's why I lean more and more towards entry level EMS being a 1 year sub-specialty course for Registered Nurses, as is done in The Netherlands, and other Europaean nations. As unpleasant as that may seem to most medics, it simply is the most intelligent way I can think of to ensure an adequately broad based foundation of the sciences and patient care process for which to build an emergency and critical care practitioner for the field without the growing pains of re-inventing the wheel.

I completely agree. One question, though. Would you like to see the education of an American RN reach European standards, as well, or would you use the American RN model as a foundation for this new paramedic? As I understand it, RN is a 2-3 year college degree in the US. Here, it's a 4 year university degree, after college. This varies a lot within Europe, but the above is at least true for the Scandinavian countries.

[batjka104]

Khanek,

You could have said the same thing without trying to insult your opponent. Maybe that's where your education is lacking.

Now, to defend my position. You are saying that a person should go through two-year college, take all science and math and whatever courses, and then be able only to perform but a simple procedure. Why would anyone do that? With more education should come more responsibility. Otherwise, it's a wasted knowledge. Like hiring a PhD to clean the lab. Maybe his education will allow him to better communicate to his fellow cleaners and to calculate the best way of running the broom. He would also know all the chemicals he's mopping up from the floor. But it's a complete misuse of resources.

The more educated one is, the more his education should be put to use. How about making Basics go through a 4-year college? Will they be any better at splinting a fracture?

If we are talking about making EMS a true medical profession, then the need for more education is apparent. But let's make an EMT a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, and not an ambulance driver with a 4-year diploma in their pocket.

[batjka104]

After all, why not set a requirement for anyone entering the field as EMT to have a college diploma? That would get educated people into the field.

Will they be better at patient care? Perhaps they will be. But only because college graduates are a better human material than a bum off the street with a GED. That's the only reason.

The patients, however, will get the same limited treatment that any housewife can provide with a home first-aid kit.

I am all for expanding the EMT course hours and practicals to give more in-depth knowledge. But demanding that a Basic, in its current status, go through a two-year college is a little extreme.

[Dustdevil]

Now, to defend my position. You are saying that a person should go through two-year college, take all science and math and whatever courses, and then be able only to perform but a simple procedure. Why would anyone do that? With more education should come more responsibility. Otherwise, it's a wasted knowledge.

You're not defending your position. You're changing your position.

In you previous post you said that EMTs should get more skills before they get more education. Now you are saying that if they get more education, they should get more skills too. Those are not the same thing. So which is it?

Either way, I disagree. The current paramedic scope of practice (except in retarded places like Kalifornia) is more than sufficient and needs no expansion. In fact, the current paramedic scope of practice in most of the U.S. far exceeds the level they are educated to. And that is our point. Currently, most paramedics are performing medical practice well beyond their educational foundation. This isn't about getting more "skills." This is about catching up to where we should have been before we were granted those skills in the first place!

And, of course, if you really believe that paramedic or EMT practice is about skills, you are, as Khanek generously put it, dangerously lacking in your understanding of EMS and life in general. For now, I'll write that off to your admitted rookie status in EMS and not being "slow." But seriously, dude, I really hope you get a clue soon so that you can become an asset to the profession and not just another clueless half-arse disgrace that holds us back in the 1970s. Stick around and read what the veterans have to say here and you can get a better idea of what this whole thing is about. Obviously, your school failed miserably at doing so.

Good luck!

[Dustdevil]

After all, why not set a requirement for anyone entering the field as EMT to have a college diploma? That would get educated people into the field.

Will they be better at patient care? Perhaps they will be. But only because college graduates are a better human material than a bum off the street with a GED. That's the only reason.

The patients, however, will get the same limited treatment that any housewife can provide with a home first-aid kit.

I am all for expanding the EMT course hours and practicals to give more in-depth knowledge. But demanding that a Basic, in its current status, go through a two-year college is a little extreme.

You need to do a lot more reading here and a lot less talking before you forever soil your reputation here. Seriously, you don't have the slightest clue about ANYTHING involving EMS. Read. Ask questions. But spouting off uneducated, unintelligent views on things you know nothing about is just really silly. And annoying.

[VentMedic]

In my pipe dream EMS degree programme, I would actually require advanced English, communications, and psych classes ahead of advanced mathematics or sciences. Those are topics that apply to each and every patient I see. The knowledge and understanding that comes from them would be more beneficial to most field medics in their everyday practice than other advanced sciences or mathematics.

There are actually over 300 A.S. Paramedic programs in the U.S. Many were started in the 1970s. Unfortunately, they got lax and offered the core as a certificate. Thus, most missed the English, Math and Science classes.

The skills "extended" to us in the 1960s by physicians actually were built on the theory that a few physicians could teach a few lifesaving skills to anyone. At this time the models were in the inner cities starting with unskilled and uneducated labor. Miami used the FD in 1966 to show that firefighters could jump start a heart with electricity.

The 1970s were actually pretty good. We had our degree programs which even nursing was still trying to establish as a standard. We were actually ahead of many allied health careers in education. The phrase "physician extender" was given to us but now doesn't hold any legal bearing and is misused or over unused in our profession. Physician's Assistants and NPs are true legal physician extenders having earned this privilege through many education and clinic hours. Both PA and NP are now making the Masters degree their minimum.

When I hear people say there is not a need for a higher level math class, it is easy to say they have not been educated in hemodynamics or respiratory dynamics. I sat through a Flight medicine class with about 25 paramedics. Most of the paramedics were certificate trained so we had to spend a day reviewing simple gas and liquid principles, A & P and math before we could even get in to the flight med "basics".

A few microbiology lectures and one might also understand how to clean their own hands and equipment better.

[batjka104]

I guess I didn't make myself clear. I definitely agree that education should come before "skills". All I'm saying is that getting an education and not using it is a waste of time and money. What's the point of getting an MD if you are sweeping streets afterwards?

Well, I guess I'm repeating myself. I would like to state that all I said above is pertaining to EMT-B's only. Obviously, paramedic scope does not need "expanding". And if you think that the education for the scope is not there, I will concur, as this subject is not my strong point.

It's just my position that EMT-B's education and scope should be brought closer to the current paramedic curriculum.

[batjka104]

Anyway, after thinking about this subject some more, I have to agree that more education will make one a better EMT or medic. Faces of people in my class still flash before my eyes, and most of those people should stay the hell away from human beings in need of help. Granted, almost all of them had college diploma or were college students with all the classes described above. Go figure!

[Dustdevil]

Well, I guess I'm repeating myself. I would like to state that all I said above is pertaining to EMT-B's only. Obviously, paramedic scope does not need "expanding". And if you think that the education for the scope is not there, I will concur, as this subject is not my strong point.

It's just my position that EMT-B's education and scope should be brought closer to the current paramedic curriculum.

Ahhh... now you're making sense! Total agreement. It's just that, once you do that, they would no longer be EMT-Bs. So really, you're talking about eliminating the EMT-B level altogether and making paramedic the new entry level, no matter what you call them.