How Would More Education Make You A Better Medic?

[Rezq304]

Unfortunately, EMS is stuck on "skills equals knowledge". Unfortunately, nothing is further from the truth.

This echoes my sentiments. I have just recently finished my two year Associate's Degree to obtain my Paramedic.

Can you be a good/competent medic if you can't read or write in chicken scratch? No! (Cue two semesters of English)

Can you be a good/competent medic if you can't do basic algebra and work equasions? NO! (Cue 1-2 semesters of Algebra & above)

Can you truly understand why your psychiatric pt's are acting like they do and deduce how to handle them the best? NO! (Cue two semesters of Psychology)

Having the Paramedic certification incorporated into a two year degree is a wonderful step in the right direction for EMS. It makes for more knowledgeable and more capable ALS providers IMO. It also makes a more well-rounded individual.

[UMSTUDENT]

I feel that the difference is evident anytime you encounter an uneducated paramedic. I will qualify this statement with another statement: educated doesn't necessarily ALWAYS mean someone with a formal college/university education. Unfortunately for the patient, most of the time it does.

I see this all of the time in my encounters. I routinely run with paramedics with rudimentary reading and writing skills. Most can't form a proper sentence. I'd say more than half of them have absolutely no idea what is going on in the world on any given day; more than half couldn't tell you how many senators there are in the United States Senate.

3/4 work on old or outdated principles in performing their care. I'd say over 80% could not effectively read a published, peer-reviewed study.

We can sit and talk all day about how education makes you a "well-rounded individual." I would have to agree 100% with this statement, but the real problem is that uneducated paramedics = bad care. I think too much of our profession is totally ignoring this fact. If you've made no effort to educate yourself on the issues that directly affect your job and you make a bad decision because you didn't know or understand, then you have absolutely no excuse for your actions. When we start making this an absolute expectation within our ranks, we’ll start moving forward.

[vs-eh?]

I see this all of the time in my encounters. I routinely run with paramedics with rudimentary reading and writing skills. Most can't form a proper sentence. I'd say more than half of them have absolutely no idea what is going on in the world on any given day; more than half couldn't tell you how many senators there are in the United States Senate.

But can they do RSI? In the end, that's all that matters...

Skills to pay the bills.

Anybody that doesn't advocate breadth education in a health science post secondary environment isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with.

I will give this example only because it is fitting. With this, I also admit that I am a terrible speller and that at times my grammar isn't the greatest. I do however generally understand what the word itself means...

A couple of days ago, a person was in chat who stated (as I recall) they worked in an ER and was an EMT-B. To me anyone that functions in an ER and is involved in patient care and assessment should be an educated person. This person stated they recently had difficulties with a patient who was (and I quote) "death and mute".

Now, I paused for a second...Perhaps I missed something or this was said as a farce. It was said again, and I said "You mean deaf, not death". The person retorted, "No, death". This went on for like a minute or two. I asked what attributes a person who was "death and mute" possessed. They said they can't hear or speak....

I lost it...

After about a 10 minute rant on my part, I was received with the "sorry I made a spelling mistake" and people actually defending this person as a "people make mistakes" or "nobody's perfect".

Come on people...Death mute?

This is not a simple spelling mistake (even when asked multiple times and in the end what that patient indeed was), this is a total ignorance of words. Honestly....People were defending this. This person functions in patient care in an ER and thinks that a "death mute" patient is hard to handle.

Personally you have to take people in chat with a grain of salt, but that incident (and the defense people came to it) spoke volumes.

[spenac]

"death and mute".

Well if death has them I hope they're mute. Cause if they're dead and talking some uneducated medic done scewed up big time. :oops:

[Rezq304]

Well if death has them I hope they're mute. Cause if they're dead and talking some uneducated medic done scewed up big time. :oops:

[Dustdevil]

But in reality for lower-level providers extensive education does not, in my opinion, improve standard of care. Because even with all the education they are still not allowed to perform anything beyond simple procedures. Once the scope is extended, then and only then can we advocate for more education.

Clueless. Absolutely clueless.

Obviously not even worthy of a response or Mike already would have.

[Ridryder 911]

Education broadens your horizons and in general attracts a better human material to the job. Look at how many places require a college degree when it's not really needed for the job.

But in reality for lower-level providers extensive education does not, in my opinion, improve standard of care. Because even with all the education they are still not allowed to perform anything beyond simple procedures. Once the scope is extended, then and only then can we advocate for more education.

Well here we go again. All I can say is thank God, EMS providers are not responsible for the majority of medical education in U.S. If that was the case we would have Vo-Tech physicians and chiropractors would be working in trauma centers. Skills versus knowledge.

Yet, again it is usually the those that do not really have a formal education to make such claims.

All we need is a few more Jethro Bodine's out there...

[AnthonyM83]

So processing all these replies, it's seeming that the value, as in other fields, is learning critical thinking skills, seeing the big picture, and being able to handle expansion of scopes of practices (as well as professional standing).

But I'm not sure I'm seeing arguments for classes like advanced math, physics, microbiology, immunology, as it relates to decision-making in the field and patient care. Psychology and basic math classes, yes, but not the more advanced courses.

The reasons given about understanding what's really going on seem like things that could (should) be covered in a good paramedic program. Do medics really need to know the etiology of diabetes? HLA-linked genes and environmental insults such as virus with protein sequences that might mimic HLA Anitgen sequences. Etc etc?

Now, I completely agree it's better to completely "own your profession" and know all about the areas you encounter in the field and the discipline a liberal arts science degree would give you. But having trouble defending that in-depth knowledge of topics past a certain point will be changing how you treat.

Thanks for the replies!

[katbemeEMT-B]

Education broadens your horizons and in general attracts a better human material to the job. Look at how many places require a college degree when it's not really needed for the job.

But in reality for lower-level providers extensive education does not, in my opinion, improve standard of care. Because even with all the education they are still not allowed to perform anything beyond simple procedures. Once the scope is extended, then and only then can we advocate for more education.

Wow, what a statement! I really have to ask, are you a little slow? I mean I may not be a medic but to say that first you extend your scope of practice and then educate is just plain retarded. Why would anyone in their right mind give you a knew skill to perform that you aren't educated to do. The proper way is to educate first, then and only then, do you consider expanding your scope of practice. Also, how can educating yourself not improve patient care? The more you know, the better you are able to assess your patient, and the better you are able to treat him/her accordingly.

I work in a BLS service with an expanded scope of practice and before any of our expanded skills could be performed we went through extensive education followed up by yearly classes as reinforcement. As a whole, this has made us better EMTs and when ALS is needed we are better able to communicate to the medics what is going on ( hospital staff too). So, how is furthering our education not providing a better standard of care for our patients. It is in many aspects saving the ED doc time as we have covered the basics, relayed the information to him, and now he can delve into more advanced diagnosis and/or treatments.

What you're saying is hear Mr. Paramedic, you're not a surgeon but I'm going to go ahead and let you operate on this guy. We'll see how it goes and then maybe we'll send you to school to learn how it's really done. Education is what it's all about. If you truly want to be a professional, then educate yourself. Otherwise, you're just another whacker out on the streets thinking you're saving lives, when in reality you are putting them in danger.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I am beating you up here but your statement shows that you really have no understanding of not just EMS but life in general. It leaves a picture of some one who runs around half-cocked and never truly knows what their doing. I guess I am still in shock.

[Dustdevil]

So processing all these replies, it's seeming that the value, as in other fields, is learning critical thinking skills, seeing the big picture, and being able to handle expansion of scopes of practices (as well as professional standing).

But I'm not sure I'm seeing arguments for classes like advanced math, physics, microbiology, immunology, as it relates to decision-making in the field and patient care. Psychology and basic math classes, yes, but not the more advanced courses.

I would agree with that to an extent. I absolutely do not advocate adding pointless courses to the curriculum that do not lend tangible value to the focused education. Microbiology? An absolute must. Sepsis, anaphylaxis, and so many other common processes are simply not fully understood without it. Physics? Darn useful. And the lack of understanding that most medics have about physics is painfully obvious when they speak. But I would stop short of saying that it is an absolute must. Same with chemistry. They'll both make you a notably better medic, and I would like to see my medics have them. And they should be required for anybody who plans to teach medics. But for entry level practice, I think physics and chem are not absolutely necessary for a sufficient grasp of the concepts.

Advanced math? Nah. Perhaps I am a little biased because I am mathematically challenged. But seriously, I have never ever had a need for anything beyond basic algebra and statistics in paramedic or nursing practice. In fact, I don't even see an instance where it might be beneficial to know trig or calc. Even in pre-med, calc is just one of those little hoops you jump through to thin out the herd. So, for medics, algebra is a must. Statistics would be a must for anybody who intends to teach.

Advanced biology? Immunology, virology, comparative anatomy, botany, etc... are certainly worthwhile and useful in giving you a broader understanding of human function. And you will indeed find many instances in an EMS career where that knowledge comes in handy and gives you an edge. I would love to see my medics have them, especially for remote and independent clinical duty (as opposed to field EMS). But again, I do not see those as absolute musts for entry level practice.

In my pipe dream EMS degree programme, I would actually require advanced English, communications, and psych classes ahead of advanced mathematics or sciences. Those are topics that apply to each and every patient I see. The knowledge and understanding that comes from them would be more beneficial to most field medics in their everyday practice than other advanced sciences or mathematics.

I have long had trouble coming to grips with a really ideal paramedic degree plan, because I don't think it requires the advanced math and sciences of a biology degree, but it very definitely requires more than you can pack into an associates degree. So I am left looking at a three year programme plan, but who in the heck wants a three year associates degree? That's why I lean more and more towards entry level EMS being a 1 year sub-specialty course for Registered Nurses, as is done in The Netherlands, and other Europaean nations. As unpleasant as that may seem to most medics, it simply is the most intelligent way I can think of to ensure an adequately broad based foundation of the sciences and patient care process for which to build an emergency and critical care practitioner for the field without the growing pains of re-inventing the wheel.