Fire Stand-by / Firefighter Rehab

[dahlio]

Only Two Months Late... But I do appreciate the response. I was actually at a pretty large fire a couple weeks back, and was able to use some of the suggestions from the forum. I was in charge of triage, and it was a lot of fun.

[Don1977]

I havent had a big enough fire here yet, but I bought bottled water for fires and big shit that may happen here, I am also a member of the Emergency disaster services, so as soon as it is a confirmed working fire, upon my arrival, I will call a canteen in, especially in extreme temperatures.

[Redneckfirefighter800]

When we get called for a fire s/b since we are only a private company that has the county 911 contract we have no ability to take someone out of service unless absolutely medically nessicary. uasually the FD's supply their own hydration materials. If climate conditions warrent it we will bring the beverages over to us that way we can monitor intake. Also we keep a case of bottled water in the truck.

[Dustdevil]

Our county EMS system is lazy so getting them to climb out the truck is hard enough let alone take vitals.

Dude, do you work for Wise County, Texas? A few years back, they had some serious wildfires that went on for a week, and thousands of firefighters from three states were there. We (next county over) sent a unit with three medics (we had no EMTs, thank God ) over to help with rehab at their CP. Those arseholes slept in the back of their farking truck all damn night and wouldn't come out for anything, while we did all the work. Shameful. I mean seriously, if you've been working 72 hours straight and simply can't hang, I understand that, but at least tell me! Don't just pull in, park, and sneak in back to crash without ever even coming over to introduce yourselves! Fags!

[dahlio]

Agreed Dust, fires aren't for sleeping. They call EMS out for a reason. Anyway, since this topic has been revived, let me post a new question, "How would you handle overall logistics for a fire as large as the recent California Fires?" In other words, how do you spread your staff out efficiently to cover all the firefighters, as well as maintain 911 coverage for your local area. Curious as to this might work...

-Would you staff up to 3 or 4 on a truck? Would you request mutual aid? What do you do?

[toutdoors]

If any EMS weenie EVER tried to take my helmet, , you'd be in for a fight. LOL

Former, I agree with you. Touching my helmet is akin to touching my weapon when I was in the Corps; you just don't do it. I say this part jokingly, but also to serve as a wake up call to some EMS personnel who may not appreciate how this action can damage a relationship between two agencies that need to work together.

One of the most important things we all need to remember is that we are not the cure all for every call we go on. Yes I did spend 5 years in the military, and have recieved some very good personal defense training, yet when we go on violent calls, who goes in first? The police, cause they have the guns, as a fire officer, my crew is staged down the street until the scene is cleared. If I am working the ambulance part time gig on that run, I will stage with fire. If we are on a cardiac arrest, as firefighters, we assist the medics with pt treatment. On the fire or hazmat scene, the police and EMS support the firefighters. Everyone has a specialty, and we all need to work together to keep the lines of communication open, and the respect for one another high, so that we all truly carry out our duties as professionals, and not with the attitude that THIS IS MY CALL, it is our call.

I know I kinda got off of your original post, sorry. In our area, the crew stays together, we use passport tags. This makes it easier for the IC to account for us. Our private contracted ambulance service responds to all working fires and they will do our rehab if things get really escalated. Normally, we will rehab and rehydrate ourselves, I think we are pretty good about it, but then again may be able to do it better. If I am working the medic gig on a fire standby, and if it is a really good worker, with a potential for injury, we will get things set up in the rig. backboard and collar on the cot, spike a bag and hang it in the rig, get the intubation kit rolled out, and electrodes on the monitor leads and hooked up, NRB hooked up to O2, and a BVM on the counter but still in the bag. Sounds like a lot of prep, I know, but these guys are my brothers and friends. The biggest expense is a wasted IV bag, and tubing along with the NRB taken out of it's wrapping, if this puts the company under, we were in pretty bad shape to begin with. While we do have a fair share of fires in our area, luckily we don't get a lot of the really big ones, mostly the room and contents type of fires.

I have also found that with anything else in these fields, if your agencies train together frequently, then you play together much better.

[Dustdevil]

Exactly why I no longer support routine fire/rehab stand-bys. Pointless, and the firemonkeys don't even appreciate it. Their officers order them to go to rehab, but they treat us like the bad guys. Screw them.

Ya know, the firemonkeys are convinced that all the community needs is fire first responders nearby, and the ambulance can come later, after they themselves have determined that EMS is needed. Well, what is good for the community is good for the fire department. Take care of yourselves. Don't call me til you're pulseless. That way I get to come be a hero without getting my video games interrupted by BS. You know what that's like, right?

[toutdoors]

Dust, it is obvious you have taken this with some great sourness. I can only assume that from your comments, you have been burned by fire service personnel in the past. That is unfortunate. I truly believe that WE all need to work better together, police, fire, and EMS. As I stated, we all have our own little rings in the circus of emergency services to the community we serve.

From your comments about fire monkeys, I can see that the professional courtesy and respect is lost as far as you are concerned. This is unfortunate. I can only speak for the department that I work on, none of the firefighters feel that we are all that the community needs. We do not transport, we show up, bandage you up, maybe start an IV, or get the CPR, AED thing going, then in comes the ALS crew. GOOD, cause we don't transport. In our community, the fire based EMS response along with jointly dispatched ALS transport service has worked very very nicely ever since the first ambulance hit the streets here.

I did not intend to make it seem in my original post that when we rehab we completely ignore the medics, nope, we will sit and smoke and joke with them. If they feel we need a little extra time out, we will take it. We have a pretty good working relationship with them, of course there are a few of them that I am not that crazy about, but that is a personality issue, not a professional one.

With that being said, I can also say that I have been snubbed by medics on EMS runs before, when they get all cocky on me and basically give you the " I am the medic, you are the firefighter" attitude. Well I understand that everyone has a bad day at times, but keep it up, and you can get that 300-400 pound pt lifted up on the cot with just your two person crew if you don't need me. You can also carry all your bags back to the ambulance when the pt is on the cot. Two can play that game, and it usually ends quickly when everyone checks their attitudes and works together for the best outcome of all involved, responders as well as pt's.

Like I said in the first post, I believe everyone needs to work together to achieve the best outcome of our calls, regardless of what type of call. Anyway, have a good weekend Dust.

[Dustdevil]

If we were't paying for twice as many men on twice as many fire apparatus as our community really needs, just so they can be there to do our job for us, we could afford to staff EMS sufficiently to not need their help.

You don't want to transport? You just want the easy glory? Nice. Why do any EMS at all if it doesn't really interest you? Why not leave it to the professionals who actually choose to do it? Yeah, I know, you don't make the policies. But if you were chief, you know you'd still run EMS rather than take a budget cut. It's all about the money.

Funny how the fire service always claims altruism when grabbing for EMS budget money, but private EMS is always derided as profiting off the misery of others. What a crock.

[dahlio]

You don't transport, rather, you show up to EMS runs, and start care. Rather than spending that money on firefighters to go on EMS runs, and having to wait for a transport capable ambulance, wouldn't that money that normally goes to the fire department be better spent on posting more ambulances? The ultimate goal of EMS, is to transfer care to a place which can give definitive care. I don't understand how the fire department is helping in that aspect, when they show up and have to wait for the ambulance. More ambulances, would mean less time for one to show up, which means quicker transfer of care. Doesn't that seem like a better solution, then to spread your ambulances thin, since your giving all the money to fire to show up? It seems more beneficial to have more EMS run EMS, then to have fire help on scene, and wait for EMS.

Just to clarify, I absolutely respect firefighters at what they do, which is fight fires. I don't know if I personally, could enter a burning building, and it takes a special person to do so. But as I said, firefighters fight fires. EMT's and Paramedics render emergency medical care. These are two completely different tasks, which is why they should be two separate businesses.

With that being said, I can also say that I have been snubbed by medics on EMS runs before, when they get all cocky on me and basically give you the " I am the medic, you are the firefighter" attitude.

Have you heard of a medic trying to run in to a burning building, meanwhile there were four perfectly capable firefighters to do so? I haven't. Have you ever heard of a firefighter trying to run EMS while there's a perfectly capable medic there? I have, and thats the problem.

Everyone has a specialty, and we all need to work together to keep the lines of communication open, and the respect for one another high, so that we all truly carry out our duties as professionals, and not with the attitude that THIS IS MY CALL, it is our call.

But that does not run the other way. A structure fire is not EMS's call, so why should an EMS call be fire's call?

Now on to the Fire Rehab part. When fires happen, firefighters are very anxious to help, which means they'd like to spend more time helping out, rather than being checked out, and rehabbed. So when a medical professional says, "you're tagged out", firefighters typically are mad. Firefighters aren't thinking about their health, and are very anxious to get back in where the action is. So aside from touching your helmet, or throwing your tags on top of the ambulance, what other options can we exhaust? EMS would be the liable ones to let you back in to that fire, and quite frankly, nobody wants to see anyone hurt. Sometimes, those are the only things EMS can do to prevent someone who is not in a healthy state, to go back in to a fire. We're only looking out for each other.