Would you stop?

[paramedicmike]

I'm confused, 1 EMT is in the back with the patient during transport, 1 is driving, how does the driver stepping out affect the patient in the back with the 1 tech.

It doesn't affect the tech. It affects the patient. The patient to whom you already have an obligation. The patient to whom you have promised to provide not only top notch care but also expedient transport to a hospital. Remember the patient? The ones for whom we do this job?

Where is the neglect or abandonment? The only thing I can see is perhaps the slower transport time, but this argument seems to be negated by everyone's argument of " it's NYC, how far away is another unit" its probably the same as the distance to the nearest ER.

You've just answered your own question. It's neglect because you have purposefully increased your transport time neglecting the patient to whom you've already initiated care.

I don't know that this meets the criteria for abandonment. But I think it certainly meets the demand for neglecting your current patient and endangering his/her life.

-be safe

[flight-lp]

Think about it from another standpoint as the obvious reasons aren't apparent to you. In Texas, an ambulance is required to have a minimum of two certified or licensed personnel on it. When the driver presents himself on scene and his / her partner is in the back, you are no longer a legal unit as you do not have the required components to be a licensed inservice unit. Plus, what happens if, while you are farking around on the MVA scene, your partners patient crashes after you make contact with a new MVA patient. Then your screwed..........

I honestly can't believe this is even being debated, at least its not as bad as the morons on Jems.com who actually believe these dumb#@$es were heros.............

[Dustdevil]

I honestly can't believe this is even being debated, at least its not as bad as the morons on Jems.com who actually believe these dumb#@$es were heros.............

No kidding! That's the first thing that struck me about this article! That's just how clueless JEMS is. That's why you can never get anything of substance out of JEMS. They exist only to feed into the whacker element. A.J. Heightman is an idiot. WTF is so heroic about throwing your partners and patients into a dangerous situation through your own stupidity, and then running like a little bitch when the $hit hits the fan? Heroic? Had Dutton kept right on driving, like he should have, there would never have been any need for his "heroics."

FDNY is not a little mom & pop transfer service. It's the biggest EMS provider in the U.S. They have policies addressing everything. What is their policy on this? If their policy is to not stop, then Dutton needs to be fired. If their policy is to stop, then they need to change it. If they have no policy, then heads need to start rolling from the top down, and hopefully Dutton has learned a lesson from this. But I doubt it. All this hero worship BS has just reinforced his bad judgement, and probably strengthened his resolve to be an even bigger whacker in the future.

Where the heck is Asys when you need him? I bet he'd like to bitch slap this guy.

[flight-lp]

Where the heck is Asys when you need him? I bet he'd like to bitch slap this guy.

No doubt, I'd love to hear his take on it..........

Did you notice in the Jems.com comment's the comment made by their editor??? Unbelievable!!!!

BTW - Mike, I enjoyed your comment............Kid could be set for life..............

[Dooger]

This is hilarious... you all want to lynch a man based on a magazine article, not in inquiry or an investigation... but a dang magazine article!

[flight-lp]

No one said anything about lynching anyone.................

I just can't believe that the editor in chief of our national level EMS magazine is condoning the ridiculously stupid actions of an individual who put multiple lives in jeopardy. Hold your judgement if you wish, but the FACTS have been presented by several sources..............And they are equally appalling................

Sorry, two thumbs down for those FDNY medics and anyone who agrees [-X ...............

[fallout]

Somehow I have a feeling that if they had called it in and kept going, we would be reading the article talking about how there was a MVC at that location and the FDNY ambulance just kept driving, nevermind the gun wielding driver and all that. We would also be hearing "OMG THEY SHOULD BE FIRED FOR NOT RENDERING AID."

I think a few of you have forgotten what it is like to be new in this profession. Every day that I come to work, I have an experienced partner telling me to do the complete opposite of the last guy. I do my best to do what I believe is the right thing, and yet somebody, somewhere, will choose to lambaste me for it.

EMS needs leadership, and frankly, feeding people to the wolves for their mistakes is not leadership, it is destruction of our profession.

[Lone Star]

Based on Michigan protocols as they've been explained to me, I have several problems with this entire scenario:

1). They were transporting a pt (pediatric sz pt.

2). The attending EMT was getting out to help check for injuries. This would have left the pediatric pt alone, thereby constituting abandonment.

3). By virtue of the driver stopping, and knowing there was already a serious pt on board, he placed himself, his partner, the pt and the pts family in extreme danger. For this he should be fired on the spot (in my opinion) It was an unnecessary risk that should have NEVER been taken!

Per Michigan protocols, if you're enroute to a nonemergent call, and you roll up on an accident, as long as there is no pt on board, you have a duty to stop and check for injuries. If you're flagged down by law enforcement, then you obviously have a duty to stop and treat the pt on scene. In the first stituation (enroute to a call), you would immediately notify dispatch, so that they can dispatch another unit to cover your original call.

Once you have a pt on board, it doesn't matter if it's the president of the United States involved in that accident, you DON'T stop!

If you're flagged down by law enforcement with a pt on board, you explain the situation to the flagging officer and offer to have a unit dispatched to their location, while you continue on to the recieving facility with your pt.

[Dustdevil]

Somehow I have a feeling that if they had called it in and kept going, we would be reading the article talking about how there was a MVC at that location and the FDNY ambulance just kept driving, nevermind the gun wielding driver and all that. We would also be hearing "OMG THEY SHOULD BE FIRED FOR NOT RENDERING AID.".

You've got to be kidding. This same topic comes up here and on other forums all the time, and the response is always the same. I can't speak for what A.J. Heightman would be saying about the incident in JEMS, and I don't really care. That is why JEMS is irrelevant in EMS. But you can't seriously believe that the media would fault anybody for not abandoning a sick child to go check on a fender bender. And yes, it was just a fender bender. If he was well enough to shoot it out with the cops, he obviously did not require “aid” that took priority over the child, which is proof positive that the stop was unnecessary and the wrong thing to do.

I think a few of you have forgotten what it is like to be new in this profession.

Who is "new to the profession?" Certainly not this guy. He's a paramedic and working for FDNY. We constantly hear here about how wonderful FDNY's "academy" is, so I am going to have to say this guy should have sufficient experience and training to be making sound field decisions, or they wouldn't have cut him loose as a medic.

Every day that I come to work, I have an experienced partner telling me to do the complete opposite of the last guy. I do my best to do what I believe is the right thing, and yet somebody, somewhere, will choose to lambaste me for it.

This is why we have SOPs. This is not a decision that anybody needs to be making on the fly. This isn't a patient dependent situation. This is a cut and dried operational scenario that should be clearly addressed both verbally and in writing from day one so that there is never any question in any employee's mind as to what the appropriate course of action is. This guy took the wrong one. The only question left is whether or not he violated policy by doing so.

EMS needs leadership, and frankly, feeding people to the wolves for their mistakes is not leadership, it is destruction of our profession.

Violating policy and putting your partners and patients at risk isn't a mistake. It is at the very least, a display of very poor judgement. At worst, it is a violation of policy. You can't just write these off as "oh well" mistakes. They have to be addressed to prevent recurrence before somebody is killed.

[Lone Star]

You've got to be kidding. This same topic comes up here and on other forums all the time, and the response is always the same. I can't speak for what A.J. Heightman would be saying about the incident in JEMS, and I don't really care. That is why JEMS is irrelevant in EMS. But you can't seriously believe that the media would fault anybody for not abandoning a sick child to go check on a fender bender. And yes, it was just a fender bender. If he was well enough to shoot it out with the cops, he obviously did not require “aid” that took priority over the child, which is proof positive that the stop was unnecessary and the wrong thing to do.

Who is "new to the profession?" Certainly not this guy. He's a paramedic and working for FDNY. We constantly hear here about how wonderful FDNY's "academy" is, so I am going to have to say this guy should have sufficient experience and training to be making sound field decisions, or they wouldn't have cut him loose as a medic.

This is why we have SOPs. This is not a decision that anybody needs to be making on the fly. This isn't a patient dependent situation. This is a cut and dried operational scenario that should be clearly addressed both verbally and in writing from day one so that there is never any question in any employee's mind as to what the appropriate course of action is. This guy took the wrong one. The only question left is whether or not he violated policy by doing so.

Violating policy and putting your partners and patients at risk isn't a mistake. It is at the very least, a display of very poor judgement. At worst, it is a violation of policy. You can't just write these off as "oh well" mistakes. They have to be addressed to prevent recurrence before somebody is killed.

BRAVO!