Would you stop?

[ncmedic309]

Who here has the entire story on this? Who has all the facts of this story? I’m figuring at least several of you do since your already calling for their termination and bashing their decision making with this incident.

Would you stop? What if you had no other option but to stop? What if your on a narrow New York street and come across this vehicle that’s crashed and blocking the roadway? You can’t continue past because your travel path has been blocked. You can’t turn around – your truck just doesn’t have the ability to levitate and do a 180. What if you can’t put it in reverse, you only have 5 other vehicles behind you. What do you do?

It should be in your instinct as a medic to investigate the incident at the least and see if anyone needs further assistance. The car is mangled; it appears the driver is trapped. What now? You call communications and advise them of the same and to get units rolling your way. You will give them more information as soon as you can provide a size-up. While doing the size-up the whole situation takes an unexpected turn when you get a gun pointed towards you by the occupant of that vehicle. You go into retreat. You can’t get your unit out of there so you do the only other thing you can – you get your patient, the patient’s family and your partner to safety and call for further assistance. What more can you do as this point?

You re-evaluate your initial patient. You were transporting is a 9-month-old seizure patient. It appears that she’s had a febrile seizure after several days of cough and congestion. She’s alert now and stable but the parents would be more comfortable if you transported her to the hospital for further evaluation. At this point you can’t do much else but hold down your current location and try to prevent harm to yourself, your partner, your patient and other bystanders. What now?

All that, is just my speculation based on the article presented – the same article that all of you read. I don’t have all the facts, just the little bit of information that was given by the author of article. However, I’m reading it with an open mind and not with the intent to bash a fellow provider or find fault in every little situation that occurred with this incident. It’s a messed up situation no doubt, but what else could have been done? I try to put myself in their shoes and then take another look at it all from a proactive point of view.

What would I do? I would have stopped either way – blocked road or not. If the patient in the truck was critical – I would have likely just continued on to the hospital if the option was available. I would have assessed the scene. Once I realized that the patient was armed and dangerous – I would have left the scene at once. It would be preferred to do so in my ambulance, but on feet would be just as good at this point. If I couldn’t leave the scene in my unit, I would have had another unit meet me at the next closest and safest cross street and then transfer care. I then would have made my way back towards my unit once it was safe to do so. With that patient out of my care, I could now focus on the driver of the vehicle once it’s safe to do so. If the patient appeared viable after the gunfight with police I would have transported him – if he was pulseless and apneic upon my initial assessment – he would have stayed that way right where I found him.

So aside from all the assumptions and more – how does your agency or department specifically address the protocol and procedure for these types of incidents? Do you just call it in and keep on going if your enroute to another call or have a patient on board or do you stop and assess the situation? Is it specifically based on the priority of the dispatched call or the priority of your current patient or does it make a difference. I know we all have personal preferences and have in mind what we would want to do – but what’s written where that specifically addresses how you manage this situation?

Who’s got something for me?

[medic001918]

Who here has the entire story on this? Who has all the facts of this story? I’m figuring at least several of you do since your already calling for their termination and bashing their decision making with this incident.

Would you stop? What if you had no other option but to stop? What if your on a narrow New York street and come across this vehicle that’s crashed and blocking the roadway? You can’t continue past because your travel path has been blocked. You can’t turn around – your truck just doesn’t have the ability to levitate and do a 180. What if you can’t put it in reverse, you only have 5 other vehicles behind you. What do you do?

It should be in your instinct as a medic to investigate the incident at the least and see if anyone needs further assistance. The car is mangled; it appears the driver is trapped. What now? You call communications and advise them of the same and to get units rolling your way. You will give them more information as soon as you can provide a size-up. While doing the size-up the whole situation takes an unexpected turn when you get a gun pointed towards you by the occupant of that vehicle. You go into retreat. You can’t get your unit out of there so you do the only other thing you can – you get your patient, the patient’s family and your partner to safety and call for further assistance. What more can you do as this point?

You re-evaluate your initial patient. You were transporting is a 9-month-old seizure patient. It appears that she’s had a febrile seizure after several days of cough and congestion. She’s alert now and stable but the parents would be more comfortable if you transported her to the hospital for further evaluation. At this point you can’t do much else but hold down your current location and try to prevent harm to yourself, your partner, your patient and other bystanders. What now?

All that, is just my speculation based on the article presented – the same article that all of you read. I don’t have all the facts, just the little bit of information that was given by the author of article. However, I’m reading it with an open mind and not with the intent to bash a fellow provider or find fault in every little situation that occurred with this incident. It’s a messed up situation no doubt, but what else could have been done? I try to put myself in their shoes and then take another look at it all from a proactive point of view.

What would I do? I would have stopped either way – blocked road or not. If the patient in the truck was critical – I would have likely just continued on to the hospital if the option was available. I would have assessed the scene. Once I realized that the patient was armed and dangerous – I would have left the scene at once. It would be preferred to do so in my ambulance, but on feet would be just as good at this point. If I couldn’t leave the scene in my unit, I would have had another unit meet me at the next closest and safest cross street and then transfer care. I then would have made my way back towards my unit once it was safe to do so. With that patient out of my care, I could now focus on the driver of the vehicle once it’s safe to do so. If the patient appeared viable after the gunfight with police I would have transported him – if he was pulseless and apneic upon my initial assessment – he would have stayed that way right where I found him.

So aside from all the assumptions and more – how does your agency or department specifically address the protocol and procedure for these types of incidents? Do you just call it in and keep on going if your enroute to another call or have a patient on board or do you stop and assess the situation? Is it specifically based on the priority of the dispatched call or the priority of your current patient or does it make a difference. I know we all have personal preferences and have in mind what we would want to do – but what’s written where that specifically addresses how you manage this situation?

Who’s got something for me?

This entire thread sums exactly why you shouldn't be stopping. No need to rehash what's already been explained repeatedly. There are many people who have explained their rationale for feeling this way on the call.

Shane

NREMT-P

[ncmedic309]

This entire thread sums exactly why you shouldn't be stopping. No need to rehash what's already been explained repeatedly. There are many people who have explained their rationale for feeling this way on the call.

Shane

NREMT-P

I'm not looking for explanations of feelings or rationale - I'm looking for your exact policy or procedure in regards to these types of situations. We can sit and debate personal rationale and feelings all night long - I want the facts and that has yet to be provided.

[Lone Star]

Who here has the entire story on this? Who has all the facts of this story? I’m figuring at least several of you do since your already calling for their termination and bashing their decision making with this incident.

Would you stop? What if you had no other option but to stop? What if your on a narrow New York street and come across this vehicle that’s crashed and blocking the roadway? You can’t continue past because your travel path has been blocked. You can’t turn around – your truck just doesn’t have the ability to levitate and do a 180. What if you can’t put it in reverse, you only have 5 other vehicles behind you. What do you do?

It should be in your instinct as a medic to investigate the incident at the least and see if anyone needs further assistance. The car is mangled; it appears the driver is trapped. What now? You call communications and advise them of the same and to get units rolling your way. You will give them more information as soon as you can provide a size-up. While doing the size-up the whole situation takes an unexpected turn when you get a gun pointed towards you by the occupant of that vehicle. You go into retreat. You can’t get your unit out of there so you do the only other thing you can – you get your patient, the patient’s family and your partner to safety and call for further assistance. What more can you do as this point?

You re-evaluate your initial patient. You were transporting is a 9-month-old seizure patient. It appears that she’s had a febrile seizure after several days of cough and congestion. She’s alert now and stable but the parents would be more comfortable if you transported her to the hospital for further evaluation. At this point you can’t do much else but hold down your current location and try to prevent harm to yourself, your partner, your patient and other bystanders. What now?

All that, is just my speculation based on the article presented – the same article that all of you read. I don’t have all the facts, just the little bit of information that was given by the author of article. However, I’m reading it with an open mind and not with the intent to bash a fellow provider or find fault in every little situation that occurred with this incident. It’s a messed up situation no doubt, but what else could have been done? I try to put myself in their shoes and then take another look at it all from a proactive point of view.

What would I do? I would have stopped either way – blocked road or not. If the patient in the truck was critical – I would have likely just continued on to the hospital if the option was available. I would have assessed the scene. Once I realized that the patient was armed and dangerous – I would have left the scene at once. It would be preferred to do so in my ambulance, but on feet would be just as good at this point. If I couldn’t leave the scene in my unit, I would have had another unit meet me at the next closest and safest cross street and then transfer care. I then would have made my way back towards my unit once it was safe to do so. With that patient out of my care, I could now focus on the driver of the vehicle once it’s safe to do so. If the patient appeared viable after the gunfight with police I would have transported him – if he was pulseless and apneic upon my initial assessment – he would have stayed that way right where I found him.

So aside from all the assumptions and more – how does your agency or department specifically address the protocol and procedure for these types of incidents? Do you just call it in and keep on going if your enroute to another call or have a patient on board or do you stop and assess the situation? Is it specifically based on the priority of the dispatched call or the priority of your current patient or does it make a difference. I know we all have personal preferences and have in mind what we would want to do – but what’s written where that specifically addresses how you manage this situation?

Who’s got something for me?

Talk about 'overcomplicating the issue'! There are so many 'what ifs' in there that its not even the same situation at all!

What if the gunman only killed the driver who stopped when he clearly had no reason to?

What if the gunmans bullet actually went through the rig and hit the pt or the pts family member?

Lets stick to the story as presented, and give feedback accordingly. Don't read into the scenario!

[whit72]

The fact is once your occupied the patient or any other patient for that matter is of no concern to you. This isn't Iraq, call 911 and wait your 5 minutes like everyone else has too. Whats the problem here. I don't care what your protocols say. How many people you think we can take care of?

Your responsibility lies with the pt you have stable or un-stable. I don't have bunk beds, and someone needs to drive. Alert another unit or dispatch to the needs of the crash victim. I wouldn't of stopped, Its not my responsibility. It may sound harsh, whatever you can be assured when you call 911 in my area I wont abandon you on the side ofthe road because I think someone else's complaint supersedes yours.

If you want throw the student out with a jump kit and a vest, if he makes it back to the hospital without any holes in him sign him off.

[Lone Star]

The fact is once your occupied the patient or any other patient for that matter is of no concern to you. This isn't Iraq, call 911 and wait your 5 minutes like everyone else has too. Whats the problem here. I don't care what your protocols say. How many people you think we can take care of?

Your responsibility lies with the pt you have stable or un-stable. I don't have bunk beds, and someone needs to drive. Alert another unit or dispatch to the needs of the crash victim. I wouldn't of stopped, Its not my responsibility. It may sound harsh, whatever you can be assured when you call 911 in my area I wont abandon you on the side ofthe road because I think someone else's complaint supersedes yours.

If you want throw the student out with a jump kit and a vest, if he makes it back to the hospital without any holes in him sign him off.

Well said!

The point that you're transporting a pt already, disqualifies you in 'rotation' for taking calls! Marconi came up with a really good invention, called the RADIO, use it!

[ncmedic309]

Talk about 'overcomplicating the issue'! There are so many 'what ifs' in there that its not even the same situation at all!

What if the gunman only killed the driver who stopped when he clearly had no reason to?

What if the gunmans bullet actually went through the rig and hit the pt or the pts family member?

Lets stick to the story as presented, and give feedback accordingly. Don't read into the scenario!

Thanks for helping me prove my point - we don't have the entire story and this whole thread is full of nothing but a bunch of "what if's" and monday morning quarterbacks.

[Lone Star]

there was enough of the 'story' to elicit the appropriate response. Until you started throwing the 'what ifs' in there!

[AnthonyM83]

The fact is once your occupied the patient or any other patient for that matter is of no concern to you. This isn't Iraq, call 911 and wait your 5 minutes like everyone else has too. Whats the problem here. I don't care what your protocols say. How many people you think we can take care of?

Well, that opens you up to a lawsuit...

[Dustdevil]

Thanks for helping me prove my point - we don't have the entire story and this whole thread is full of nothing but a bunch of "what if's" and monday morning quarterbacks.

Wrong. We do have the complete story. They were loaded and they stopped. End of story. Unless the street was completely blocked and they had no ability to turn around (like in your hallucination), then anything else you add to the scenario is irrelevant. They, or FDNY, or both, were wrong.

To answer your question, every agency I have worked for in the last 25 years had a written policy forbidding stopping when loaded or responding to another run. And, of course, if your agency does not, your agency sucks.

And learn to edit your replies. I know you are overly impressed with your own posts, but quit requoting them everytime you post another reply. They were annoying enough the first time.