Working for minimum wage in EMS: Why?

[BEorP]

Discussion in this thread prompted me to ask my question: http://www.emtcity.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9190

Would you work for minimum wage (or near it) in EMS and if so, why?

I understand that EMS may be a career that some look highly upon, but at some point you need to draw the line and be sure you have a wage that allows you to adqeuately support your family. According to this thread the federal minimum wage will be $6.55 in Summer of 2008. I make over twice this teaching first aid and CPR and there are many other examples of how incredibly low that wage would be for a health care provider.

Why on earth would anyone work for such little pay? Do you actually love being an EMT that much? Did you come into the occupation blind to the low pay you should have expected?

[tskstorm]

Discussion in this thread prompted me to ask my question: http://www.emtcity.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9190

Would you work for minimum wage (or near it) in EMS and if so, why?

I understand that EMS may be a career that some look highly upon, but at some point you need to draw the line and be sure you have a wage that allows you to adqeuately support your family. According to this thread the federal minimum wage will be $6.55 in Summer of 2008. I make over twice this teaching first aid and CPR and there are many other examples of how incredibly low that wage would be for a health care provider.

Why on earth would anyone work for such little pay? Do you actually love being an EMT that much? Did you come into the occupation blind to the low pay you should have expected?

I make roughly 35% above minimum wage, which is obviously not much.

There is potential to make more in this occupation with further training. (completion of online classes, instructor courses, higher certifications)

Currently I am pursuing taking those online classes, becoming a CPR instructor and skills instructor, taking medic class.

Gotta start at the bottom to get to the top.

FDNY starting salary is 27295 a year, prior to shift differential, OT, meal pay benefits etc...

This is about 13.13 an hour. about 85%-90% above minimum wage.

The top salary is 39179 this is about 18.84 an hour. this is more then double ny's minimum wage.

Don't know if this helps any.

[Ridryder 911]

The reason EMT's get paid minimum wage is really simple.

First very few jobs one can immediately enter after just attending a 16 week course (some is only 2 weeks) and the costs is nominal in comparison to other professional education.

Second, since it is so easy to become an EMT, we have flooded the market so much, we have people that will work for free! Just to be able to "ride" in an ambulance and keep up their license/certification. There is no respect or demand for a profession, that allows such.

I know of Flight Paramedics that make <$10.00/hr and have to have all the usual alphabet titles and at least 5 years experience from an progressive service. The reason... they have a stack of applications, so why should they have to pay for it, when they don't have to?

Again, we our a product of our own demise! In my state, we crank out at least >500 Basic EMT's every 16 weeks for a state that only has <200 licensed EMS services. Many of these are ALS and would not consider most with < 3 yrs experience and then prefer medics.

A viscous cycle. We will not ever increase the salary, until we :

Make it difficult to enter and to exit the EMT program

Truly make it an education program and thus probably removing the EMT level altogether

Use the supply and demand method..

Compare our profession with other healthcare professions. R.T.'s, Sonographers, Nurses, etc... all increased their education level, limited those that could enter, and have a check & balances method on how many can be allowed into the program.

Again, supply and demand...

R/r 911

[BEorP]

Thanks for your comments, Rid, but I was more looking to hear why anyone would work for such a low wage when they could find other jobs that would pay better or as well without the shift work and stress on your body. Any thoughts on that?

tskstorm, you provided some good information. I don't know if I agree with you in that you "Gotta start at the bottom to get to the top" though. As far as I know, there is nothing (except maybe money and confidence) to prevent someone from getting their EMT-B cert and going right to EMT-P. And of course we can look at health professions where emerg physicians never started as ER techs but we've had discussions on that before.

[tskstorm]

Thanks for your comments, Rid, but I was more looking to hear why anyone would work for such a low wage when they could find other jobs that would pay better or as well without the shift work and stress on your body. Any thoughts on that?

tskstorm, you provided some good information. I don't know if I agree with you in that you "Gotta start at the bottom to get to the top" though. As far as I know, there is nothing (except maybe money and confidence) to prevent someone from getting their EMT-B cert and going right to EMT-P. And of course we can look at health professions where emerg physicians never started as ER techs but we've had discussions on that before.

Any reputable school here, requires minimum 6 months field experience as an EMT-B, before applying to the school.

[BEorP]

Any reputable school here, requires minimum 6 months field experience as an EMT-B, before applying to the school.

Fair enough. So why get into EMS at all then? Nursing, medicine, respiratory therapy, and the list could go on and on with health professions that will pay better and offer better careers. Were you fully aware of what to expect in terms of pay when you first registered for your EMT-B course?

I'm not trying to pick on you or ask rhetorical questions, but if I were going to be making minimum wage or just slightly above it I would not even consider EMS as a career. I'm really trying to understand the mindset of those entering EMS in this situation.

[tskstorm]

Fair enough. So why get into EMS at all then? Nursing, medicine, respiratory therapy, and the list could go on and on with health professions that will pay better and offer better careers. Were you fully aware of what to expect in terms of pay when you first registered for your EMT-B course?

I'm not trying to pick on you or ask rhetorical questions, but if I were going to be making minimum wage or just slightly above it I would not even consider EMS as a career. I'm really trying to understand the mindset of those entering EMS in this situation.

I became interest in EMS after my stay in the USMC. I'm not a very religious person, but I did some things in the USMC I'm not proud of, and I wanted to make it up to society. Thats one and secondly, the light at the end of the tunnel. Per Diem Medics in private hospital make upwards of 35$'s an hour. Plus from what I hear from numerous medics, is it is difficult to become an ICU, or ER nurse, and a Medic to nurse transplant will receive higher consideration into these fields because of there background and history.

Perhaps thats the motivation, I don't know. Another thing I like is the lack of immediate supervision, I like to be to be the one in command, maybe thats the USMC in me. I like the pressure, the different and unique work environment, the different challenges, scenery changes etc...

edit * I missed one of your questions, Yes I knew the pay of EMT's of different levels of training and different types of service. ( private, municipal, transport)

[GulDukat]

The reason EMT's get paid minimum wage is really simple.

First very few jobs one can immediately enter after just attending a 16 week course (some is only 2 weeks) and the costs is nominal in comparison to other professional education.

Second, since it is so easy to become an EMT, we have flooded the market so much, we have people that will work for free! Just to be able to "ride" in an ambulance and keep up their license/certification. There is no respect or demand for a profession, that allows such.

I know of Flight Paramedics that make <$10.00/hr and have to have all the usual alphabet titles and at least 5 years experience from an progressive service. The reason... they have a stack of applications, so why should they have to pay for it, when they don't have to?

Again, we our a product of our own demise! In my state, we crank out at least >500 Basic EMT's every 16 weeks for a state that only has <200 licensed EMS services. Many of these are ALS and would not consider most with < 3 yrs experience and then prefer medics.

A viscous cycle. We will not ever increase the salary, until we :

Make it difficult to enter and to exit the EMT program

Truly make it an education program and thus probably removing the EMT level altogether

Use the supply and demand method..

Compare our profession with other healthcare professions. R.T.'s, Sonographers, Nurses, etc... all increased their education level, limited those that could enter, and have a check & balances method on how many can be allowed into the program.

Again, supply and demand...

R/r 911

While there is the ring of truth in what you say, truly I agree with you btw, there is another ugly aspect to this as well. Something field providers rarely concern themselves with, and understandably so.

We have to raise the amount of money that Ambulances make.

Not just allow them to bill more, but actually increase the amount that they are paid.

I believe the avg. collection rate nationally is right around 50%, a little above or a little below I don't remember.

But you can't just demand more money from systems, providers, companys, etc., etc. when the money is not there.

EMS also self destructs often times because we don't even know what we are ourselves. Some people consider us part of health care others consider us part of Public Safety.

Until the day comes when we decide what we are we will always be an amalgamation and thus never considered a true profession.

Sorry to the original poster, I didn't answer the question.

Simply put, in EMS often times it's the only way to start.

Also let's look at your teaching money for a moment. Whoever you are teaching for and paying you (I assume either a company or a service or something) collects the money at 100% and then pays you.

I wonder if you would be making twice the min. wage in the U.S. if whoever you were working for was only collecting from 50% of the people in class and then only getting 50% from the people that pay?

I'm not saying either way, I'm just wondering aloud.

[VentMedic]

50% is actually a good reimbursement by many medical standards. There are other issues concerning that which are also related to legislative issues, licensing and educational standards in the EMS that also keeps reimbursement lower. But, that should be another topic.

EMT is a great start in the medical profession. You have limited supervision. You are mobile. You do (contrary to some beliefs) get some respect. Although, the uniform and the ambulance with lights and sirens does help in that area.

Then, you get comfortable and enjoy the job or get involved in your life. Continuing your education takes the back burner. Your significant other may make enough money for you to still continue working for minimum wage. You like the people you work for or with. You've got a nice station and decent working conditions. There are definitely worst jobs that also pay minimum wage. As long as your family is comfortable, well cared for and you enjoy your job, money may not be the biggest motivator. I'm at a stage in my life now where good benefits including insurance and retirement are my concerns (and can be a hindrance when a good job opportunity does comes along).

You may not be academically inclined but have found a job that you could still feel like you are helping people. Maybe you haven't been exposed to or researched all of the great professions that are out there that would be a compliment to your EMT or Paramedic training and pay better.

However, today, there shouldn't be any excuses especially about money problems if you do want to enter another healthcare profession that pays better. Hospitals are willing to repay/pay almost all of your tuition for many professions. There is now daycare offered by the colleges and some hospitals. Hospitals and other employers may allow you class time on the clock for some professions.

[speedygodzilla]

I would not work for minimum wage as an EMT-B. However I did quit a $11 an hour warehouse job to take a $9 an hour ER (EMT- Tech job. The two dollars I was losing an hour is worth the experience and excitement of the job. Maybe others don't care as much about the money but enjoy the job enough. Does anyone work as a EMT for minimum wage?

I guess I got lucky cause 3 months after working as an ER Tech all Er Techs got a $5 raise, so I was happy to make $14 an hour. None of us even knew that we were going to get that kind of a raise. My supervisor said that the techs were getting a raise, so I was expecting 50 cents but I sure didn't argue with $5.

I have been told by my supervisor to go for an RN rather than a paramedic as I could make more $$$. I don't think twice about changing my goals. To me the extra money is not worth giving up the excitement I see in the field as a paramedic. I want to be in an ambulance not in a hospital (unless it is surgery, too much health channel ).