Working for minimum wage in EMS: Why?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Hey Bent, your analogy about the 20K loan is really good. I've been seeing a lot of ads on tv that are pushing going to school to be a crime scene investigator or criminal justice degree and it touts that there are all sorts of jobs in law enforcement.

It's the same thing. Funny how emt/medic classes don't seem to be advertised with the same vigor as this program is.

for those interested in becoming a crime scene investigator which usually requires that you are a cop, you can go to www.ITT.com and throw your money away.

[VentMedic]

There is another private EMT/EMT-P school that has be driving me crazy with their ads. It is actually their internet site that I have been trying to get them to correct for two months. That is unless "endotracheal incubation" is a new skill. It probably is a new certification that now makes the total 47. :roll:

http://www.floridacareerinstitute.edu/emergency_medical.htm

I have emailed and telephoned them. My introduction and credentials mean little to the person that usually takes my call. My emails haven't been answered probably because I didn't fill out the questions expressing my desire to be something "new and exciting". I have gotten nowhere except an invitation to come up and check out a "new and exciting" career. When I inquire about the price I just get the same "exciting in demand career yaddy yahda". I have heard it is a hefty price tag for just EMT-B.

This school might be the greatest thing since buttered bread, but if only they would correct that one little typo on their website. Then, I might be able to tolerate the commercials. Of course one of their competitiors has even more annoying commercials. But, that is what a mute button is for on the remote.

Almost forgot to mention my opinion on the ACLS card. Granted it is required to have for many professions. It is little more then a certification that really no longer even demonstrates or tests your skills or knowledge. The practical no longer has a stress factor or even the urge to vomit by students anymore. The written test is also a joke. And yes, I know this "everyone can pass" attitude is supposed to promote learning. But, let's be real.

[BEorP]

ACLS isn't a joke where providing care is concerned: a BLS truck can not push drugs except for O2 and D50, and use an AED. You wouldn't send those untrained for ALS out on CP or difficulty breathing calls.

I'm not sure what exactly you're saying here, but I personally wouldn't send any EMT-B or I out on a chest pain or shortness of breath call. If ACLS is not a joke when it comes to providing care, can you please tell me how it allows you to provide a higher level of care to your patients? (Maybe this is not rhetorical, I am not familiar with your scope of practice as an EMT-I.)

The fact remains: certification and licensure are all we have, unless you have a better plan for the whole EMS world, smart-guy.

You would seem much more intelligent if you took some time to read the forum before making an attempt to rip into Dust. There have been ideas on improving EMS in many different threads. Most of these centre around education (which no, does not mean a bunch of weekend courses).

[Dustdevil]

I haven't seen the new thread yet.

That's because he stuck a stupid teaser of a topic name on the thread, making it difficult to identify it in the thread list. Somebody didn't bother to read the directions.

ACLS isn't a joke where providing care is concerned: <snip> You wouldn't send those untrained for ALS out on CP or difficulty breathing calls.

You're showing your ignorance and inexperience. Quite obviously you have never taken ACLS before, or you would know better. I've been taking ACLS for twenty-five years, and I can assure you that they do not "train" you to do any of that stuff. It's not a school. They review a bunch of stuff that you are supposed to already be adequately educated about PRIOR to attending, then they test your knowledge on the topics. That's it. Nothing more. Can just about any idiot pass it? Sure, nowadays. That's what a joke it has become. That's also why current ACLS isn't accepted by ANYBODY as a certification to practise. It is nothing more than a card saying that somebody on one day thought you were familiar enough with current protocols (not knowledge or skills) to know what order to give drugs and shocks in while treating the most common arrhythmias. That is why employers want you to have it; because it show's you are protocol current. It says nothing whatsoever about the quality or quantity of your education. Once you take the course, you'll hopefully realise this and divest yourself of your dilusions.

[Ridryder 911]

I don't believe it has been addressed yet, since I have not read all of the posts (because they are getting boring.. AHA ACLS.. yes, it is a joke!) What does not come in, will not go out. Since in the U.S. the primary payer is Medicare and since the reimbursement rate is low and co-insurance (if there is any) and collection rate is about 30% there is no money! Period!

Now, with that saying, should Medicare really be paying $800 for a taxi cab ride?

Now, I have your attention, justify our pay. Realistically what percentages of patients requires any medical care, rather than just transportation?

I get amused at those asking for moderate salaries and then describe how .."they would not perform, if the pay was not this or that"... I feel the same way on the pay of athletes, and truck drivers, they are definitely not getting for what they pay for. Someone attended a twice a week class from 2 weeks to 10 months, the most 2 years and you want as much as a person that has a graduate or even doctoral degree in education or special studies? Wow! C'mon tell me how tough it is, is it as tough as the road crew in the 100+degree heat, the oilfield worker, or as mental strain as the G.I. loading up weapons?

Now, that you are completely upset... justify, why we need such salaries! This is the first step to ever change such. Why EMS administrators is not outraged and why HCFA (or whatever its new name is) has not made changes? Simple, it is hard to do.

Again, we do not require formal education, most states only require certification not license, there are no modification on supply and demand (we flood the market), there is no professional standards, or demonstrating that communities even requiring an EMS service .

I understand why some work for low wages. I do. I can make over double an hour by walking across the street and working as a RN. The reason why, I don't is that I enjoy what I do. I choose to be a Paramedic, not that I have to be one. I am still fighting for this job to be a profession, and attempting to still see changes made. Yes, monetary is essential and nice, and yes the pay should definitely go up, for the old saying..'you get for what you pay for".. is part of the problems we have seen in our profession. We have to "justify' and show the reason(s) we need recognition and larger payment to EMS. Until then.. nothing will change and all we are doing is whining...

[BEorP]

Rid, that is a very interesting way to look at the topic. Although I said that I would not work for minimum wage as an EMT, I can't justify why they deserve much more than that. I generally support people being paid what they are worth (rather that getting paid a higher wage due to a government minimum or a strong union). With the very short time it takes to become an EMT, it would be difficult to justify getting paid much more than minimum wage. I look forward to hearing other opinions on this.

[StickEm]

Forget it.

I can see this is just another forum where a handful of forum vultures chime in on every thread and perform bukkake in everyone's faces when they disagree with a discussion point. Internet forums are for suckers. Suckers who want people like Dust to take out his anger and frustration on.

I'm out.

Enjoy roasting me for leaving.

I don't even know you guys, and have decided this is a better forum to just lurk in rather than post. My time would be better spent doing something else.

[whit72]

Hey Stick'em, where you going all in a huff? When it gets a little hairy you run off. Not a great quality for EMS professional.

What did you think everyone would agree with you? This isn't Mayberry. Now get your butt back here and stick up for yourself and your opinions. Show a little freak'n guts man.

[MrsRankin0510]

EMS is relatively new. Nurses and Docs have been around as long as disease itself. I think the entire healthcare system doesn't yet know what to do with us. There are idiots on ambulances, and then there are medics that I talk to before making an appointment with my Doctor.

In Paramedic school we learn med math and how to set up drips, and we take the same pharmacology class required by the nursing program at my school. I work in an ER and have tought nurses how to set up nebulizers and how to work a stopcock. I have even helped ICU nurses figure med doses. Yet I still make 1/3 what they make. I'm not bitter about it and I don't think I'm better or smarter than all nurses. I just understand that in a hospital setting I"m not utilized to my full potential because healthcare doesn't know what i'm capable of.

[BEorP]

EMS is relatively new. Nurses and Docs have been around as long as disease itself. I think the entire healthcare system doesn't yet know what to do with us. There are idiots on ambulances, and then there are medics that I talk to before making an appointment with my Doctor.

In Paramedic school we learn med math and how to set up drips, and we take the same pharmacology class required by the nursing program at my school. I work in an ER and have tought nurses how to set up nebulizers and how to work a stopcock. I have even helped ICU nurses figure med doses. Yet I still make 1/3 what they make. I'm not bitter about it and I don't think I'm better or smarter than all nurses. I just understand that in a hospital setting I"m not utilized to my full potential because healthcare doesn't know what i'm capable of.

How much education do you have compared to the nurse?