Working for minimum wage in EMS: Why?

[Scaramedic]

We are supposed to have refreshers, and CEU's but I see so many write offs, and coffee cup CEU's.

R/r 911

So you have been to an EMSA ACLS course!!

Peace,

Marty

[GBFDEMS174]

Why on earth would anyone work for such little pay? Do you actually love being an EMT that much? Did you come into the occupation blind to the low pay you should have expected?

I would work for such little pay because I love the satisfaction that I get after I have saved someones life, so i guess my answer is yes I do love being what I am that much and no, I did not come in blind to the low pay. I am actually a volunteer and wouldnt want it any other way.

[Eydawn]

One could ask the same question of teachers. Why do you work for such low pay and minimal benefits in your field? Why, you could have gotten a doctorate and at least have prestige to satisfy some of that lack! You could engage in conversations with others educated in your field and produce groundbreaking or at least intriguing work!

Go ahead, ask any elementary or high school teacher why they teach for low pay, terrible benefits, and crappy hours. The answer you get won't be that they do it for the money, or that they do it for the respect (listen to the coffee room scuttlebutt in any public school and see how parents and administration treat a lot of teachers). They do it because they like it and because they find a sense of purpose in their job.

Now, I know what you're going to say... at least teachers are educated. They at least have to have a bachelor's degree. Yea? Well, it still didn't get them decent pay, and many of them still suck. Education isn't in the time you sat your butt in the classroom to get the parchment on your wall... it's in your own motivation to pursue learning. I know plenty of people who will be graduating from college who have retained little if any workable knowledge, except how to pass an exam.

Perhaps EMS will be paid more if we start requiring associate's or bachelor's degrees for any level of prehospital care provider. But I wouldn't say it is a cause and effect situation at all.

You work in the profession you love, or you live your life by waking up miserable at the thought of going to work, every day of your life. Find the profession you love, and do whatever it takes to enjoy your work. Why do you think so many people work multiple jobs to supplement income, especially those who work in EMS? Because they want to continue working EMS instead of becoming desk jockeys or something similar. So they sacrifice and work hard to stay in the field. If there isn't something that makes the job worthwhile, you quit.

Obviously, that worthwhile is not money, either for EMS or teachers.

Just my way of looking at this one...

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[medic001918]

I just read through this topic. While the pay could certainly improve, I think most people want to make more money regardless of their occupation. The key for us improving comes with education and responsibility with regard to our profession. The profession needs to continue to move forward, not remain stagnant or even taking steps backwards. I'm able to make a decent living as a medic. My base salary is somewhere around $50,000-$55,000 a year plus benefits. I work a 36 hour work week one week, and a 48 hour week the next (all 12 hour tours). It allows me time off. Or it allows me the chance to pad my income more by pulling an extra tour every now and then if I want.

As for StickEm...your loss for leaving bro. But that's on you. You should do some research on ACLS. If you think that course prepares you for patient care, you're sadly mistaken. Someone already explained it. It's a review of knowledge you should already have obtained prior to taking the class. It's not really a class that teaches you anything. And it certainly doesn't "certify" you to perform any skills or interventions. I question why your service would offer a $5,000 a year pay increase for the course. It's a great deal for the employee's to take advantage of, but does nothing for your patients. You can't analyze rythems or use a cardiac monitor without having that card is what you said. That's great, EMT-B's and I's shouldn't be analyzing or using a cardiac monitor unless it's an AED. And for that, you certainly don't need ACLS. If they're going to require ACLS, do they require PALS for kids? Seems like a lop-sided system to offer incentive for one and not the other. As far as chest pain and shortness of breath calls, the only way an EMT-B or I should be on those calls is if they're there with a paramedic. And if they have a medic there, the certification cards they carry don't really amount to much. If you want the incentive's, go to paramedic school. My guess is that the more you learn, and the more you realize you don't know...your views might change on what level's of providers are doing what.

Shane

NREMT-P

[BEorP]

Perhaps EMS will be paid more if we start requiring associate's or bachelor's degrees for any level of prehospital care provider. But I wouldn't say it is a cause and effect situation at all.

I think I would disagree with you on this.

You make a good point with your comparison to teachers. But is it really possible to raise a family on minimum wage and provide them a good life? I have heard about American teachers being poorly paid, but are we talking minimum wage? The "doing what you love" argument is a fair one, but where do you draw the line? At what point do you finally say that it is not enough money and you need to do something else? (I guess for volunteers there is no line, but I mean for people who are trying to live off EMS.)

[Eydawn]

Didn't say it was a good idea to try to raise a family on minimum wage. Remember, I did say that there had to be something worthwhile in a job for one to remain in it. If the job is satisfying, but there is no way to make ends meet financially, the job ceases to be worthwhile, if family is your priority. All depends on the person and their situation.

As to the cause and effect... I think the problem lies in how our EMS system is structured as a whole. I don't think you will see startling pay increases if all of a sudden new paramedics or EMT's start entering the field with bachelor's degrees in Emergency Medical Science, because experience is also where part of the pay scale determination comes from. Unless employers, cities, etc. want to increase their EMS budgets, there is nowhere for the pay raises to come from. And pardon me if I'm wrong, but the average American taxpayer isn't going to vote for EMS budget increases just because the folks have degrees. On the private side, I don't think people will start paying their bills just because the fellow who took them to the ER has a BS in something.

Don't get me wrong- I am *not* arguing against education. Not at all. I am arguing that education will not necessarily equal a pay raise or a raise in respect by the community at large. And I'm also reiterating the point that someone can have a million degrees in science, humanities, psychology, Emergency Medical Science, and still be a *terrible* care provider. Yes, the more background knowledge you have to work with the better. I reap the benefits of my solid biology knowledge and familiarity with the molecular/cellular level of how folks work. But I can guarantee you that someone who got a higher grade in my Cell bio class has retained less of it and doesn't understand it.

I guess my beef with this is that the American educational system is geared to select for those who test well. Test taking is a skill unto itself, and doesn't display the actual knowledge of the person. It shows how well they can reproduce the material on a test. The proof is in the pudding, as they say... I don't care what your GPA was or how many degrees you've got, *show* me that you can do something with it.

I have always refused to respect someone simply because they sat in classrooms for 2 or 4 years and managed to pass their classes. I've met too many morons with degrees, and that is why I do not automatically associate a degree with intelligence or functional capability. On the flip side, I don't automatically disrespect someone with a degree either.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[whit72]

It has everything to do with demand, the field is flooded, both ALS and BLS. Until they do something to limit the number of people allowed to enter this field, then you can increase the education requirements. This will always be a young persons enviorment. They are usually the only ones who can survive on the measly pay.

Education has little to do with compensation. Take a look in the newspaper to see what people with BS degrees are being paid at various jobs. Demand is what increases compensation. An entry level business course will tell you that. It is the only reason nurses with associates degrees are making fifty-dollars an hour. Once the field levels out you wont see the compensation increases you are seeing now.

[Dustdevil]

Again, I'm not bitter about it and I'm not crying that it's unfair, just answering the origional question of why medics are paid so little. If I was in this for the money I would have gone to nursing school.

That is an admirably healthy and mature attitude. I would like to make it clear that I meant no personal disrespect in my previous post. I just feel strongly that you are definitely not being underutilised in your hospital position. Not a reflection upon you personally. Just a fact relating to your level of educational sophistication. Like you said, nursing and EMS are apples and oranges. That means that hospital and pre-hospital care are also apples and oranges.