Help me convert Ruraltown EMS from volly to paid.

[stcommodore]

I work and volly at two seperate EMS squads as an EMT-B. I see the merit in the volly service, but no merit in the excuse it must be volly because the area can't fund it like I said. I honestly haven't taken this debate to far for personal reasons. In the end it probaby isn't one of the major 3 issues I would have EMS unite around anyway.

[BigEMT310]

Having just recently gone from volly to paid staff, I feel your pain, the real problem as I see it in your case is, you're providing the milk for free so why should the taxpayers buy the cow? A united front in the entire department is needed to address the issue of paid staff versus no staff. Get local newspapers involved, local politicians need to be on board, let them do some ride time, let them see what kind of response there would be...volly vs on site staff, here in my county, we had to do just what you're explaining, an uphill battle that CAN be won.

[CBEMT]

let them do some ride time, let them see what kind of response there would be...volly vs on site staff,

Not always a fantastic idea. If I'd had a politician riding along for my last volunteer shift, s/he would've seen me do not much more in 12 hours than normal station chores, napping, TV, eating, and reading. Oh, and we checked the reserve trucks at the other stations. Exciting stuff!

Oh yeah. They'd be in a SERIOUS rush to raise taxes in order to pay me by the hour instead of by the call.

[spenac]

Not always a fantastic idea. If I'd had a politician riding along for my last volunteer shift, s/he would've seen me do not much more in 12 hours than normal station chores, napping, TV, eating, and reading. Oh, and we checked the reserve trucks at the other stations. Exciting stuff!

Oh yeah. They'd be in a SERIOUS rush to raise taxes in order to pay me by the hour instead of by the call.

Yup and if you do get a call it's hard to make a stumped toe look like a serious call. Sadly it often takes a serious incident involving one of their family members when there is no ambulance available to make changes.

[Rural Medic]

Hi,this is my first time posting anything on this site.The topic of rural medics being paid is an interesting one.You really have to do your homework,not only wages have to be budgeted but all the expenses of running a service.How much to insure an ambulance,how much to heat the building,how much for repairs,how much for fuel,etc.The cost to run an ambulance is more ,much more then just wages.I agree that people should be paid for their services. A little advise,iamb both a paramedic with a rural service and the town mayor do your homework very throughly,bill patients for trips,generate incomes to off set expenses.Also in rural setting things are harder but not impossible,AND YES the day of the volunteer is finished.People have to be paid for their time,their skills and their dedication. Do your cost ,all cost to run a service and most definitely go for it. GOOD LUCK

[BVESBC]

If you are planning on hiring the EMT's that are currently Volleys you may want to look into the FLSA, there my be some problems with that, unless they quit as a volley.

Labor and the Law:

News and Current Events from the LERA Section on

Labor and Employment Law (LEL) © 2006

May 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Labor and Employment Law News

Volunteers' Wage & Hour Claim For Back Pay In deciding workplace rights, labels do not matter. In this case, being called a volunteer does not mean that America Online's chat room volunteer “community leaders” did not perform work covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act and New York law and, as a result, that they are not entitled to back wages for that work. To decide whether a person is a covered employee, a court must look closely at the facts concerning how the services were performed. The FLSA has a very broad definition of

employment, that is, “to suffer or permit to work.” Hallissey v. America Online Inc., Case No.99-CIV-3785, (S.D.N.Y. Mar. 20, 2006).

Among the duties the volunteers performed were managing and updating message boards; moderating chat rooms, including preventing inappropriate conduct; updating, deleting, and modifying forum content; running special features; writing reports about sessions and their actions; and providing tutoring services. Volunteers were required to work a minimum number of hours per week. The volunteers believed that to get a paid position, they were required to volunteer for AOL. In fact, the evidence showed that AOL had tended to hire its paid staff from their volunteer staff. In addition, volunteer services were similar to those of paid employees. The court concluded that these facts supported a conclusion that what the volunteers did was work that entitled them to backpay.

Will this change anyones views, ALWAYS CYA!

[Dustdevil]

...do your homework very throughly,bill patients for trips,generate incomes to off set expenses.Also in rural setting things are harder but not impossible,AND YES the day of the volunteer is finished.People have to be paid for their time,their skills and their dedication. Do your cost ,all cost to run a service and most definitely go for it.

Quality first post, grammar notwithstanding! =D>

It's always exciting to see someone in a position to make a difference who "gets it". Welcome!

Hallissey v. America Online Inc., Case No.99-CIV-3785, (S.D.N.Y. Mar. 20, 2006).

:shock: Wow, nice! Great job of bringing up something that is wholly relevant to EMS that probably few have ever thought of before. I'd like to see a few vollies run with that concept. A few volly lawsuits could be enough to turn the tide in favour of professional EMS.

[BVESBC]

Quality first post, grammar notwithstanding! =D>

Yea, send them all the phone number for Dewey Cheatem and Howe (sorry spelling may not be correct)

It's always exciting to see someone in a position to make a difference who "gets it". Welcome!

:shock: Wow, nice! Great job of bringing up something that is wholly relevant to EMS that probably few have ever thought of before. I'd like to see a few vollies run with that concept. A few volly lawsuits could be enough to turn the tide in favour of professional EMS.

[spenac]

Hi,this is my first time posting anything on this site.The topic of rural medics being paid is an interesting one.You really have to do your homework,not only wages have to be budgeted but all the expenses of running a service.How much to insure an ambulance,how much to heat the building,how much for repairs,how much for fuel,etc.The cost to run an ambulance is more ,much more then just wages.I agree that people should be paid for their services. A little advise,iamb both a paramedic with a rural service and the town mayor do your homework very throughly,bill patients for trips,generate incomes to off set expenses.Also in rural setting things are harder but not impossible,AND YES the day of the volunteer is finished.People have to be paid for their time,their skills and their dedication. Do your cost ,all cost to run a service and most definitely go for it. GOOD LUCK

Your right that other expenses are involved in running a service. But those other expenses have already been paid while a service was a volly service. The only new expenses are the wages and a little more for utilitys as station will have people there 24/7.

As far as another poster mentioned vollys should sue for back wages. It could really force the movement forward.

It is funny as a service goes from volly to paid how much wages go up. Recently 3 services in my area went paid. Now we are seeing $25/hr for paramedics where just a couple of years ago if a paramedic made $11/hr they were considered top pay.

[mobey]

I do not listen to people who tell me they can't afford a full paid service. My home town runs a full paid service with 2 units (only 1 paid full time, other is utilized if staff are around to run it), and they have ALS (unless he is on the first car)

Anyway point is the company does 100 - 120 calls / year. That's right full time ALS supported by a mere 100 calls / year.

If there is a will there is a way!

EDIT to add this:

I am about 95% sure on these numbers: Wages in said 100 call/year town:

PCP (EMT) $19.70/hr $4.50 on call

ACP (Paramedic) 26.19/hr $4.50 on call