What role does/should EMS play in rescue?

[Richard B the EMT]

I also take exception to the phrase "at all cost".

We have 6 missing in a mine collapse a few weeks ago, status on posting date is still unknown, 3 died while attempting Rescue/recovery.

Oh, also, I never got beyond "Tenderfoot" in the Boy Scouts, but most in my family think by being an EMT, I am still trying to be a Boy Scout.

[CodeBlueEMT]

Rural EMS. My training in rescue has been an asset. There is always room for specialized training in EMS. Take advantage of every opportunity to further your education. My experience in the fire service and EMS has served me well. Enjoy the upcoming training.

Shayne

[rdenman26]

Most ambulance personnell dont get resuce training here. There is familarisation with rescue procedure and equipment that may be used by the fire service so we can operate safely at and incident. We are starting to see the development of special operations response teams, who have training to deal with incidents such as HazMat. Also we are developing USAR teams with the fire service and even tactical medics with the police. But mostly rescue is handle by the fire service, cave and mountain rescue, the coast guard, Royal National Lifeboat institution and RAF SAR teams.

We used to have light resuce kit such as, prybar, saw boltcroppers and scredrivers but it was taken from us. Because of this I one had to call the fire service to free someone who had fallen and got stuck between there bath and toilet. They sent two pumpers and a heavy resuce truck, which is apparently the standard response to a persons trapped call. Funny thing was only two firefighters could fit in the bathroom, and only one of them at a time could use a small saw to cut the side panel of the bath away. When me and my crewmate wheeled the patient out to the ambulance there were firefighters every were.

Another time I had t call the fire service to force a door, luckely the patients friends managed to find a prybar.

So basic rescue kit and training is very useful but the use of specialised tools is, well, specialised. This sort of thing needs to be left to people who have extensive training in its use. Which aint the ambulance service. Of course I can only speak for the UK.

[rock_shoes]

I don't think there is anything wrong with medics taking rescue training. I spend time working with the local SAR team and sometimes the medic needs to be the first one in to best serve the subject. Without proper rescue training it would be impossible to do that safely. None of us go in unknowingly in that event right? I know I don't.

When best serving patients requires getting to their side ASAP, medics need to take the training required to get there as safely as possible. I know flat-landers may have a different opinion but they also work under different circumstances.

[Medic26]

Do one thing and do it well.

I agree with this statement, but not in the manner dust meant. I believe that to be a truly effective team member during a "rescue" situation you must have basic working knowledge of the things that must be done to effectively "extricate" or remove the patient from the enviroment they are in. You as a patient care provider should be able to anticipate the needs of your patient during a rescue, the only way to truly do this is to have BASIC training and knowledge in rescue techniques. My own opinion is that all EMS providers should have basic rescue training for this reason. While I do work for an agency that performs rescue, it is not mandatory for all of our people to cross-train although its recommended. The only thing you must remember is what your purpose is on any given situation, patient care.

Just my $0.02 worth. :salute:

[Just Plain Ruff]

i belive that all of us as first responders "whoever" needs to do their best in all situations to save life and limb at any cost.

Hey cullen, you give your own life and limb to save someone and let me keep mine.

You should never give up your life or your health to save someone. That just isn't the way it's supposed to work.

Remember the first one or two sessions in your emt class where they stressed Scene Safety.

If you have to save life and limb at "All Costs" then you are going to have a very short career in EMS.

Might want to re-think that though process. I know you are wanting to save the world, I was like that as an emt too until I realized that I'm not about to risk my life to save another. I have to get home to the Mrs. and the kids.

And remember - a dead rescuer is one less rescuer to help.

[Richard B the EMT]

After working on ambulances from 1973, I have never been shown how to put on a Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA), and, while participating in a training seminar, one, and only one time, actually handled a hydraulic cutter/spreader to cut a car's drivers door off.

The device was not a Hurst "Jaws Of Life", but a competing brand, and the instructor stated at the beginning of the session, that he was a salesman for that brand device being used, as well as an instructor.

[Dustdevil]

If you have to save life and limb at "All Costs" then you are going to have a very short career in EMS.

Might want to re-think that though process.

Fifty bucks says he will rapidly re-think the process the very first time he is actually faced with that decision.

Too bad he wasn't in Floridia to save "Chubby" last week. We could have put his theory to the test!

[rdenman26]

Fifty bucks says he will rapidly re-think the process the very first time he is actually faced with that decision.

Indeed! Its amazing how quick a persons view of such things changes, when faced with a situation you might not walk away from if you screw up. I was just the same, at first. I suppose many people are!

Now have a got enough posts for another star yet. I envy the likes of Dustdevil with all those stars.

Too bad he wasn't in Floridia to save "Chubby" last week. We could have put his theory to the test!

[mstovall]

I have worked on both sides. In Eastern Tn I was a member of a rescue team (actually only probationary and moved before a slot opened up for me). They used the EMT and Medics to the fullest. Whoever was the strongest in an area was the team leader and then the best medical person was next up. This was done due to the large amounts of backcountry they covered, including lakes, caves and high angle. The guys would all be at a minimal competency, then they usually specialized in one area.

In Ky, EMS is responsible for all extrications. Many services have chosen to contract this out to the local fire departments, but other services have retained this. In Ky, the local FD is listed as the basic for everything other than extrication (except if they have a contract giving them this responsibility). Then there are regional teams for SAR, Hazmat, Dive teams, and soon to come the high angle, trench rescue, and confined space. This is usually a core group of guys that specialize in this one area. They try to get at minimal one person from each county in the region of coverage. They also use medical people trained specifically for the problems that could be seen from the rescuers and the patients. This gets a medical officer or two that knows about the specific health risks involved with these special rescues.

I hope this is clear as I just finished a reverse double and my mind is a little cloudy. If there are any specific questions you have, feel free to pm me or post and I will answer ASAP.

Michael