Scene Safety

[emtb916]

i was just wondering about something and i am going to add a poll to this but what would you do.

I am an EMT-b. I was on the Micu riding 3rd person trying to get cleared. So we go on a call and are coming back from the hospital on our way to the station. On the way there their is a dispatch for a psychiatric person and we are going to be passing right by the scene. our bls unit responds cause its a class 2 (bls, light + sirens) call. We (the Micu crew) decide we are going to go an assist them. the bls crew was 2 female emt's, the micu was 1 male medic, me and a female EMT. we respond not notifying county or turning on our lights. county advised out bls to stage in the area because the male pt was violent, had a weapon or some sort and was threatening to kill himself and everyone else. our bls tells county they are staging in the area but didnt say were. i guess we pass right by them and they call us on the radio and tell us to go back to the station and that the will handle, well we tell them that we are just there to assist them and then we will go back to station. i guess it wasn't good enough for them, we see PD enter the scene of the parking lot were the pt is, and we park at the entrance to the lot and stay in out ambulance. we tell the bls to come over and that we are going to help. they throw a fit tell us to get the f**k out of there and they will handle the call themselves. at this time we see the pt with a bat and he is swinging it at PD they are drawing there tasers to we stay. they bls unit goes available is a mean way with county saying " bls available our micu has apparently decided to handle the call". all the while they are on the phone with me giving me a hard time. i was just wondering peoples opinion on the matter. were we right going to help them?

[Mark3743]

I would have left after you were told by the other unit they will handle. I don't know the crews involved but it seems like you may have stepped on a few toes.

S**T HAPPENS! :oops:

[Alcomedicism]

Considering it was 2 F EMTs vs a combative/violent male pt, swinging a beaseball bat (can be deadly weapon) at an LEO, yes you were right to assist in the call. You were going to need as many people as there are limbs to keep this guy under control once detained. Besides, the two F EMTs should have been on the lookout for their own safety. For all God knows the aggressive pt maybe have had rape and murder on his mind, wit the 2nd pt being an accomplice to the *possible* crime. This is the very first thing we are taught in EMT class, scene safety. What good are going to be to your partner, patient, or yourself if you find your self severely injured and un able to perform your job duties.

-Dix

[emtb916]

yea we might have stepped on a few people's toes but oh well. once we got this guy in the back of our bus he was saying he was going to open the back door and jump out if he saw a cop following us to the hospital. and once we got down to the hospital he ended up having to be restrained by security and also by PD, and one of the security people ended up i think getting bitten we could really figure out why or how he ended up bleeding but he did.

[Woody76559]

We only have one truck so we don't have to worry about someone jumping calls or the conflict with dispatching a BLS and a MICU unit.

As far as the scene safety aspect goes, I tell my crews that if you can see the residence or where the patient is supposed to be at then you are too close. If we are waiting for PD to clear a scene, then we wait. No ifs ands or buts about it. It all boils down to line-of-sight. Basically, if you can see them, they can see you. And if they can see you then you can be shot at. Too many of our brothers and sisters in EMS and Fire have lost their lives simply by not adhering to this standard. There is no patient that is worth the lives of another EMS provider.

[KSEMT122]

Yes it sounds like you stepped on some toes. I would have left after they told you they would handle it. You offered your assistance and it was turned down. PD was on scene and they should be the ones fighting with pt's... Not you, the EMT. If you are in a position that you are fighting a pt PD needs to take over and control that person, but you did what you thought was right and it all worked out in the end. That's what this job is all about, doing what you think is the right thing, and as long as it works out in the end, it's all good.

Take Care

Dan

[DT4EMS]

I am going to have to agree with Woody. The first part of any self-protection/self-defense is a "reactionary gap". Depending on the threat, that distance of a reactionary gap changes.

An empty handed attacker may require the average gap of about 6 feet. The accepted standard for an attacker armed with a knife is 21 feet.

A firearm is obviously much further.

EMS providers are very territorial. We are taught in EMT/Paramedic school that we are in charge of a scene. Fire School and the police academy teach the same thing. (SO that always starts a pi**ing match).

EMS providers are like police officers in they have a STRONG PASSION FOR DUTY. That is why YOU wanted to offer assistance. On the other hand, the territorial animal reared it's ugly head and stepped on the toes of the other crew.

I still have to agree.......the more people you have on a scene (on your side) the less potential for violence.