Dissapointment

[AMESEMT]

Tonight I had some free time between studying for tax accounting and going to bed. I decided what a better way to kill some time than to go to emtcity.com to see what is going on. Maybe see some good posts that will make me think or laugh. Tonight, like the past few times I have been here I was sorely mistaken.

I read several posts where someone, usually a long time member of City, would put in their 2 cents worth, which consisted of bashing volly's, Basics, and the poster. Even more so if the poster stated they were a volunteer and posting in the BLS area.

I have got to say....WHAT THE HECK! I am so sick of people bashing volunteers and BLS providers. Granted there are whackers out there that need to get a paid job in EMS, or advance in their education, but has anyone stop to think why are some people volunteers?

I can say, I am a volunteer. Why you may ask? Because of the reason and the choices I have right now. I am currently in my last semester as a college student who is getting his B.S. in Accounting. I was not fortunate enough to find EMS right out of high school or even in high school then go to paramedic school. So I got my EMT-B in the middle of my senior year of college. I thought about not attending the university any more to go and get my paramedic. I was talked out of it (I am glad) since I have $70,000 in loans and a semester left in my education.

Since I don't go to paramedic school until January, what am I going to do in the mean time since no service is going to hire me with 4 months left before I leave (I tried to get a job, no luck). I decided to volunteer at the local hospital where they have a dual medic (paid) 911 system. I have volunteered many times there to maintain my skills as a BLS provider, and to learn and experience more by being in the field and getting the various calls and using what I have learned. You may be asking, volunteering at a paid ALS service, how does that work? Well, you just volunteer with the 2 medics. You could say this is not true volunteering, I will give you that one. But same principle as why people sometimes do the volunteer work, to gain experience before going to paramedic school and don't have many options, the open schedule for a paid position, the volunteer allows for more flexible scheduling for college students, that is the closest thing they have currently, etc.....

Don't get me wrong, there are whackers out there and volunteer systems that need to be revamped. But what most people do is stereotyping...which is bad. I just ask that people, mainly the ones that are paramedics and have been at this site for quite awhile, to stop and maybe reconsider bashing someone or speaking ill of others just because they are BLS providers, volunteers, etc... Stop and think about maybe the reason behind it?

With that, I am sad to say I have seriously considered leaving this site and never coming back. I realize not all posts have this but many of the people that post the most are those who do these things. These experienced people have lots of knowledge and experiences everyone can learn from and offer many insights into things people may post about. But when you bash and insult you make people not want to listen to what you have to say.

That is my 2 cents worth. I hope people will think about what I have said and not bash me for it, I am just stating my feelings from what I have observed.

Good luck and be safe out there!

AMESEMT

[AnthonyM83]

The only reason for bashing vollies isn't the whacker syndrome. It has to do with advancement of EMS as a professional field. Maybe someone will reply with more detail or you can do a search of Dust's and others' posts.

As far as bashing basics, the comments I've seen are more criticizing the position, not the people who hold the positions.

I guess as certain ideas gain momentum and are shared by more people on the forum, they start coming up in a lot of th threads...again and again...I think mainly in efforts to educate, but there might be a superiority / teaching everyone the right way thing going on at times? Not sure...but I have noticed the trend, whether it's for a valid reason or not.

[itku2er]

You should walk an inch in someones shoes before you judge them or bash them for doing what they do.

[Eydawn]

Please do not leave the City! If you leave, you remove part of the dialogue that does not necessarily think that BLS and volunteering are detrimental to our profession. As for why many of our older and wiser heads are currently on a no EMT-B, no volly kick: Think about how many other professions *(other than firefighting)* have 1 semester certification courses. Now think about how many professions encourage people to work for free in order to gain experience... I am not talking about internships or research assistantships here, even though a lot of those are unpaid or minimally paid. I am talking operating at the full capacity of your certification, doing the same work that other people do for a living-- for free. No one in here will argue with the fact that EMS is underpaid and often mistreated by other medical factions. After a lot of discussion, many of our older folks have decided that a large portion of the reason we are treated this way is because we allow people to operate with minimal training and education, and we do not demand equal pay because we have just accepted that the half paid, half volley system is the way things are. That is what they are trying to change- they are trying to figure out how to improve EMS and reduce burnout. They are also trying to figure out how to better educate providers so that we have people operating on logic and reasoning rather than referring to a protocol book for every action. They don't hate you, I promise! Stick around and see if you can add to the dialogue. And it is perfectly fine to disagree with people.. just be prepared to catch some flak every now and again. My enter key is busted! lol.... Wendy, CO EMT-B

[Timmy]

I guess I would agree with Wendy. I sit here and look at some other volunteer positions on a website:

Transport Drivers

Rail Redevelopment engineers

Security Officers

Registration officer

Administration officer

Communications Team

Disability Careers

Support young men

Cleaner

Music people

People who speak different languages

Medical Officers

All of these jobs no matter if the person did a 2 day course or a 4 or 5 year degree are all volunteer positions. It seems that you Americans have a funny attitude towards volunteers. In my state most of our fire service is volunteer; we have 50 odd thousand volunteers and maybe 1000 paid staff. I had never heard of a whacker before I came to this site. Now my fire service is all volunteer, yeah we have a few ‘whackers’ but without those people we couldn’t respond. The fire service is VERY community involved were I volunteer and no matter how long it takes us to respond people are always grateful that we actually turned up to help them.

In outback Australia I think most of the ambulance service and some of the professional health care services are volunteer but without those dedicated volunteer’s giving up there time to help other’s those people wouldn’t receive any medical aid and trust me, it’s a long walk to get help.

I can see why people are upset by volunteers taking paid positions but really who’s fault is it? It’s not the volunteers but merely the service in which gets has a need from volunteers.

[spenac]

Sorry to hear that the truth hurts.

I am happy you have found something you enjoy doing and I hope you stick with it.

Please understand that this is how I support my family, it is not a hobby. I once was a volly

but I do feel the volly system has to go if this is going to be a true profession.

[oldfiredog]

I have not posted very many messages on this board because of the "paragods", but I must admit they usually have some very good points to make. Once I get over the anger from the "bashing" and reread the posts I usually find some good.

I am a volly doing the best I can because somebody has to help out, the area I live in has some very good medics and some bad medics. I am using the term "medics" to refer to the paid professionals. I do agree that in an ideal world all of the EMT's would be highly trained and educated to the highest possible level, and actually be paid a living wage. In the rural areas this is not going to happen anytime soon, and us vollies will do the best we can. What would happen if we all quit vollunteering?

[EMT City Administrator]

It is the dialog that makes change and educates. If you don't participate, and bring other points of view to the table, then you go unheard. Try not confuse bashing with the feelings that get stirred up when someone posts something you do not agree with. Take those feelings and come up with a well thought out rebuttal.

"Bashing" should be reported to the mods using the report button.

I wish everyone well.

Admin

[Dustdevil]

I guess I would agree with Wendy. I sit here and look at some other volunteer positions on a website:

Support young men

Wait... what exactly do they mean by "support?" And are there any young women who need "support?" This could be a volunteer gig I could really get into!

Ames, usually when some drama queen posts an "I QUIT!" thread, my one and only thought -- after the laughter -- is 'good riddance.' But not only are you somebody I have always respected here, you also present an intelligent case for our consideration. I do understand your disappointment. But I would agree with the previous poster who said that these posts usually are not about people. They are about levels of training and contributions or detractions from the profession. Obviously, it is people who attain these levels, and it is people who make those contributions. But again, we -- or at least I -- try to focus only on deeds, not people. Even those people whose deeds I disagree with are still people with personal merits I do not question. Just because many of us believe that Basics and volunteers (and I would not consider your volunteer position to be in this category) are harmful to our profession, it does not mean that we believe those individuals are not welcome in EMS. Obviously, most of them have a lot to offer the profession. All I ask is that they step up to the plate and elevate their game to professional levels. To contribute to the profession as a whole. To be the very best they can possibly be, not just what is "good enough" for the volunteer fire council.

Those who have what it takes to be a professional will answer the call and give 110 percent towards achieving that goal, and I will be the first to proudly welcome them aboard. Those who take personal offence to the suggestion that it takes more than 120 hours of eighth grade level night school to be considered a medical professional simply don't have what it takes, and nobody is going to miss them. Which ever of those two epiphanies they come to, I am happy to have helped them reach it, because it is a positive thing for them personally, and for the profession as a whole.

Ames, I know you have what it takes to be a pro. I have absolutely no personal doubts about you whatsoever. Quite honestly, I am excited that you would even consider EMS as a profession, and I truly hope that you do it, excel at it, and love it for the next thirty years. Because I believe that, I believe it is my responsibility to tell you that, if you choose to leave this site, you will only be hurting yourself. This site is packed to capacity with members, and more are joining everyday. Probably nobody but me would ever even notice your departure. But you will be denying yourself the best possible source of intelligent discussion and information about the career you are seriously contemplating simply because there are some truths that you take too personally and would rather ignore than ponder. And let me tell you, the disrespect you feel you get here is absolutely nothing compared to the brutal disrespect you will receive from your employer and patients every single day of your EMS career.

Toughen up, Bro. Show everybody else that your continued participation is actually worth caring about. :wink:

[riskynremtp]

I am sorry that you feel the "bashing effect". I too initially sensed this, but after thorough in depth investigation into the commentary, I found that there is so much insight and intelligence that can be held in your finger tips. A perfect example, would be the post made above by Dustdevil. This is experience and education in the field at it's best. And, there are so many more here that are trying to bring the profession to new levels. I feel that is sometimes easy for a new person to the business, to overreact receiving constructive criticizm. This is due to the "hometown hero effect". So many come out of school thinking they are new heroes that will change the world. Maybe, and I do say maybe, a "lighter" style of verbage should be transpired in a few instances, but as a whole I would say that newbies, basics, volunteers, etc., should remain calm and as I was told to do, Think outside the box. Well, if I wasn't already doing that, I wouldn't devote time to the city, and educating our public. Remember that there is no one out here smarter than the other, just sometimes more "experienced". Life is nothing more than experiences. Either you soak up all you can, and this includes education, or you watch it slip through your years of life without grasping all you can. Again, I am very sorry that you have been offended in any way, and I would hope that you reconsider your thoughts of leaving. I commend your volunteering, and wish you all the best in your career choices. Based on some of your previous posts that I've read, if you left you would be seriously missed, and someone somewhere here would eventually be deprived of your experiences that may supplement their career.