WTF you mean FFs not worth the tax dollars???

[stcommodore]

I'll repeat a previous comment about 'if nobody did it for free...' Those are the situations where volly FD/EMS systems collapse and the goverment steps in and finds a way to then pay for the service. I would rather we not have to reach the 'bad event' that makes the public realize a need for change and adapt to the changing tides instead.

[firemedic05]

Paramedic Mike

You are probably correct that I am annoyed. I can't help but be annoyed when someone is attacking the fire service. I don't like when people make blanket statements of ignorance. Ex: I saw a veteran from Iraq the other day who wasn't injured so the war over there must not be that bad? That is a pretty ridiculous statement, just like "Despite the daring hero image the fire service wants to portray, they don't even rate in the top ten most dangerous professions in America." So, your saying the fire service isn't dangerous? To me that is disrespectful to all the fireman, ecspecialy with the deaths in the fire service this year. I never said it was the most dangerous job. I do say it is a noble one and am proud to be a fireman. So, I apologize to you Dust. Dust, Firemen are my family and my brother is a firefighter and I take offense when attacked. You should never judge a whole group of people from a few bad examples within that group. To explain, getting paid when saying I am volunteer. In my town, we do not have a manned house and set firefighters only a Chief that is full time paid. So, we are called volunteer. Yes, I do make $10 a call but half the time I don't even pick up my check, my brother gives it to me. I don't do it to make money or as a "hobby" as indicated. I am trained as a firefighter and a paramedic, so why not? sure its exciting sometimes but other times it is a hazardous site or a basement fire and its scary as hell. If no one volunteered then yes maybe they would have a paid department but there are times we go a week without a call. So, for my particular little town, our system works and does save money for the taxpayers, of which I am one. I also have never heard of 60-90 day courses for Paramedic and that quite frankly ticks me off. I am paying back student loans for two years of school, so I apologize for saying that isn't true either- I find it hard to believe that is acceptable.

[Dustdevil]

don't like when people make blanket statements of ignorance. Ex: I saw a veteran from Iraq the other day who wasn't injured so the war over there must not be that bad? That is a pretty ridiculous statement

Actually, it's true. Easiest war I been in so far.

I have enjoyed your responses in other posts and you seem to know a lot. I do think you act like a bully on any given subject.

Fair enough. It's a combination of professional passion, and the unfortunate result of just tiring of seeing the same old subjects and accusations being brought up over and over. I realise that n00bs really can't held responsible for knowing everything that has ever been discussed here in the last two years, and I try to have patience to a certain extent. But any hint of "hero worship" here, whether it be fire OR EMS, has usually already been thrashed by somebody before I even see it. It's just an unpopular concept with those of us who are trying to move the profession past the "public safety hero" stage. I apologise if I struck out too harshly.

I don't know of any fire departments that are allowing people to become medics in ninety days, ecspecially in my state with National Registry? That may be true but if it is I haven't heared of it and I do get out.

Yeah, as has been pointed out already, it is actually extremely common all across the country, but especially in urban FD systems. And, of course, more than half the n00bs that look into EMS as a job start off by asking how fast they can do it. It's just damn rare to see people come to the field looking for quality instead of expediency. So again, we have another issue that just chaps a lot of arses here. I am very glad to hear that you are somebody who stands for quality education, and I look forward to your further participation here.

I am a firefighter on volunteer basis in my own town because if I don't do it then who will? Its just that simple.

If you lose your life fighting somebody's hay barn fire, or driving to a false alarm for free, who will take care of your family, if not you?

It's just that simple.

[FormerEMSLT297]

I can not open the link, it has been removed from the city council agenda ,, can anyone send it to me ?

[DwayneEMTP]

This is one of the things I love about the forums..

We have two bull headed donkeys (of course I mean Dust and firemedic05), smart, passionate, willing to duke it out for what they believe is right, but unwilling to duke it out simply to appear right...

Neither on one will back down...until...they see they have common ground. Then it's a whole new ball game.

I wish all the topics were fought so well, and so hard. Not until someone gets bent, but until we start to see daylight.

Thank you both (and everyone else as well of course) for your thoughts.

Dwayne

[AnthonyM83]

We allow the media to create a pseudo-image of EMS and then complain when we don't like it.

One of the reasons this is true, particularly in EMS, at least in SoCal, is both the high turnover rate and that it's a secondary job task add-on to people's true goal of being firefighters.

In Los Angeles, this is also the case. I've been told FF/Medic who goes crazy with OT can rake in close to $200,000/yr until burning out...but that's almost as much as some accomplished surgeons who also teach medical school (read: two incomes).

As for the $10/call FF, I don't think he should feel guilty for putting his life on the line. In the end someone has to do it, whether they make $10 bucks per call or $100,000 per year. Why else would you do any job than for the love of the job? Money I guess...but nothing wrong for doing it for the love.

BTW, Dust, most of the FF applicants who work for my company are going to school for or have already gotten an AA. Albeit, it's a Fire Sciences degree, but it's still two years-ish. Few get hired without it that I know of.

[AnthonyM83]

As far as OP. I bet this is a ploy to stir up fear in the public that they might lose fire protection. All the little old grannies get scared and call their council members and fire gets more money. Any takers on this bet. I will bet all the lint in my wallet and pockets that is what happens.

I'll bet that it's not an intentional ploy. That's very conspiracy theory-ish. I won't, though, bet on the result.

Its a freaking powerpoint presentation at a city council meeting, jeez. I made a proposal to my city council in high school about the quality of school lunches. C'omon. I understand grass roots efforts and all of that, but really we should be fighting for a national lobby, not hoping that some teensy spark in a single town backed by a single guy will cause widespread change. All the power to him, though.

Glendale FD is a decent sized agency and a known city in the LA area. It's very possible they could lead the way for other like agencies in the area... I'm personally interested to hear what the plan is....makes sense so far, though...if majority of calls are EMS, downsize fire component.

[CBEMT]

I've never advocated cutting the size of fire departments, and I don't think we as EMS should be doing that.

Fires, when they happen, are very manpower-intensive. Multiple studies have shown that efficiency decreases and injuries increase as the number of ffs per company is lowered. Sure, some departments do it with much less but they truly are taking unacceptably large risks.

Instead of trying to gut fire departments just because we think firefighters are dumb and don't work enough, we should be concentrating on increasing EMS resources- for everyone's benefit.

[Dustdevil]

BTW, Dust, most of the FF applicants who work for my company are going to school for or have already gotten an AA. Albeit, it's a Fire Sciences degree, but it's still two years-ish. Few get hired without it that I know of.

This is a good point to ponder! Big fire departments can afford to be picky, and make their candidates jump through flaming hoops for two reasons:

• 1. Supply of candidates far outweighs the demand.

2. Rewards of the job make prerequisite education a sound investment

• We have number 1 going for us in EMS. Unfortunately, we're still a long ways away from number 2. And even more unfortunately, it's a Catch 22. The rewards won't catch up with the education until the education exceeds the rewards.