Forcing Entry to Get to Paitents

[AnthonyM83]

I know you have heard it all up and down this list, but we call PD if it is anything other than a regestered life-alert system.

Okay, let's limit this discussion only to calls from concerned neighbor for 70+ year old ladies with known medical problems. Do any other systems out there not call PD before gaining entry (provided no response at front door) either forced or through open door/window?

[brentoli]

Our ambulances don't because they aren't dispatched on it to begin with. It isn't a medical problem.

Tired of hearing from me?

[EMS828]

i think we have to force entry into homes if called. This past weekend I had to force entry into a home, and good thing that i did, the patient actually had a seizure! We have law enforcement go with us if we might have to force entry. I guess it dependds on the medic and personel he is with.

Bubba

[FireMedic65]

Here in PA, we can't force entry as EMS until we can visibly see the pt, and they are unable to let us in... otherwise, PD is contacted. I have myself before kicked in a door bc the pt was laying on his floor. Other times patient wasn't able to make it to let us in (door locked) and could not see the patient... we had to contact PD. Which is crap if you ask me... but oh well. I don't make the laws... probably a good thing I dont't either...

[EMT007]

My ambulance service actually works out of a state police department, and a few months ago, our officers got called to a welfare check for basically the situation you've been describing - elderly woman who hasn't been seen for a little while. They get to the house, no one answers the door/phone/etc. They decide to kick the door down, and find this little old lady lying in bed, unable to move from a CVA. Apparently, she'd been there for >1 day! So they call EMS out and we take her in - fortunately she survived.

As for us, we carry a window punch, a huge pry-bar, bolt cutters, etc for just that purpose (forcing entry if necessary). We don't have any specific policy on the matter - it is left up to the judgment of the EMT. If its something obvious (where we can see the patient, infant locked in a car, etc.) we'll force entry without a second thought. If its less clear, we'd probably (but not necessarily) raise the police Watch Commander on the radio and give him/her a rundown on what we have and say "hey, we're going to break down this door - can you send us a unit and advise on anything you want us to do". However, it almost never comes to this. A lot of buildings around us have Knox boxes on them and we have the FD access keys as well, so its rare that we can't get access to a building/apt complex.

[AnthonyM83]

If its something obvious (where we can see the patient, infant locked in a car, etc.) we'll force entry without a second thought.

Second thoughts are a good thing sometimes...

[FredG]

Second thoughts are a good thing sometimes...

Yes, they are, what happens if there are high CO levels in the house and you force entry to get to that patient laying on the floor...now we have 2 patients.

[EMT007]

Yes, they are, what happens if there are high CO levels in the house and you force entry to get to that patient laying on the floor...now we have 2 patients.

Yeah well we can second guess ourselves (or our patients :roll: ) to death on the majority of calls we get. "Maybe the gas tank is going to explode on this TA" -- "Maybe there will be an earthquake and the freeway overpass will collapse, better have the patient come to me" -- "Maybe this patient has a knife; better have the cops pat them down before I treat that open Fx"

Are you saying that if the door is unlocked, you're not going to go in and look for your patient because there might be a CO leak?

Of course we consider scene safety - I meant that we don't have any thoughts as to "maybe we should have FD or PD come do this for us", etc.

[AnthonyM83]

Second thoughts doesn't mean don't do it. I just dislike the idea of "we'll force entry without a second thought" if it's something obvious...I prefer think it over (over a few seconds) see if there's safer/faster alternatives (than breaking glass with kid inside), then if not, proceed. Only time I'd really do without having second thoughts are split second actions (patient lunging at my partner or person reaching for a weapon or person with active uncontrolled arterial hemorrhaging).

It's really just semantics, but they also kind of reflect two different styles thinking in the field... Sorry, didn't mean to make post seem to critical...just pointing that out. Thanks for the reply, though.

[SSG G-man]

Well, if it is a CO issue, our ambulances have SCBA on them. (I think this was done because so many members are cross trained as EMT and FF.